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 Replies: 7 / Views: 1,230 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
526 Posts |
What is the definition of a doubled die?
If you do give an answer, please consider both processes of hubbing, multi and single squeeze.
BJ Neff
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2734 Posts |
A die with two sets of design elements, or at least incipient division of design elements. The elements must be ones that are placed on the working die by hubbing.
That would seem general enough. :)
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1219 Posts |
While Mr.Diamonds explanation works well with the multi hubbing process it should not apply to the single squeeze scenario. Technically there should not be any double design elements on dies with with the single squeeze. Either the single squeeze has some flaws in it's operation or any doubling would have to be passed down from the original design to the working dies. Should this be considered a doubled die or an error on the mints part?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Mr. Diamond's definition is accurate.
It does not matter whether it is single squeeze technology or not. The fact is that for at least ten years we have known about doubled dies occurring while using single squeeze technology.
From Ken Potter,
"The cause is due to a tilted die blank seating itself into proper position during the hubbing process -- a condition that has been confirmed as occurring by Mint workers with hands-on experience at both the Philadelphia and Denver Mints. One Mint worker described the action of a tilted die seating itself properly during a hubbing as having a distinctive "clunking sound" -- a familiar ring to anybody who has spent considerable time operating presses set up for stamping operations where the work-piece may be loaded off-location but forced into position by the upper die during a cycle (a sound this author has heard hundreds of times during his stint as a press operator)."
So...there's the flaw in the system and doubled dies are all over the place using single squeeze technology. And it happens to the die during the hubbing process.
So how is Mike's answer inconsistent with single squeeze technology?
Thanks,
Bill
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1219 Posts |
Bill, apreciate your explanation. So in actuality the mint gained nothing in changing to the single squeeze system.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
526 Posts |
The single squeeze system is a substantial time saver. It eliminates the need for a mid stage annealing and does away with the need for a second hubbing. So it that sense, it is a complete success. Now, everyone has the opinion that it was supposed to do away with the doubled die, or so the MINT said.
"It will avoid the possibility of hub doubling" were the exact words used in the FY report of 1986 from the MINT. That does not say it will do away with the doubled dies.
Yes, the single squeeze hubbing process does produce doubled dies, it also produces trail dies, which in my humble opinion are different than a doubled die. But it is a technological advance for the MINT and I believe a good one.
BJ Neff
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
As BJ says,
They gained much needed time.
Have Fun,
Bill
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Valued Member
United States
381 Posts |
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Replies: 7 / Views: 1,230 |
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Posted 08/07/2008 4:03 pm
