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 Replies: 7 / Views: 1,524 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts |
I was reviewing an auction by a house I've bid at before. The Terms and Conditions popped up and I glanced at it, then read it some more.
If I'm right, they aren't guaranteeing their coins that sell for less than 1000 GBP, and anything that sells over that for two years.
Am I right? Check it out for yourself. Here's a copy/paste with the auction house name changed to ACME:
"The condition of our coins is based on the facts and pictures that are made public until the auction as well as generally accessible knowledge. Additional specifications of the condition are not agreed upon. This is specifically the case for written or oral disclosures. The condition of the coin is not guaranteed in any way.
In case of defects of title according to § 435 BGB the buyer is able to withdraw from the contract within a time frame of two years due to the respective defect of title or demand a reduction of the sale price. Additional rights of the buyer according to Para 7 or BGB, especially the right to supplementary performance, damages or reimbursement for frustrated expenses are excluded, except when the defect of title was concealed maliciously.
In case of a material defects according to § 434 BGBthe buyer is allowed to withdraw from the contract after showing prove of the material defect, if ACME infringed her due care of cataloging the coin keeping in mind the rarity and value of the coin. Insignificant defects of coins of the value of € 1000,00 or below do not constitute a right to withdraw from the contract. In case of a justified withdrawal the buyer receives back the purchase price step by step for the return of the coin in unchanged condition at the registered office of ACME. All further claims of reduction of purchase price, damages or reimbursement of frustrated expenditure are excluded, except if ACME concealed the defect maliciously.
Otherwise all other warranty rights of the buyer are excluded.
An enterprise or tradesman is not entitled to withdrawal, if he has not complied with his or her legal obligation of inspection, notification and rejection.
ACME can transfer her claims against the vendor in case of justified defects of title or material to the buyer.
Claims of the buyer because of material defects become time-barred after one year after handover/delivery of the purchased item to the customer. Excluded from this are claims for defects of consumers as well as claims for damages due to injury of body, life or health as well as claims for damages due to grossly negligiently or deliberately caused damage by ACME. Insofar the statutory statues of limitations are applicable."
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
My understanding is the buyer is responsible for grading of the coins they bid. So no guarantees on condition regardless.
Title I take to mean acurratly stating whatever the item actually is; you have two years to dispute that. In other words, the buyer has a level of responsibility to know what they are buying.
Regarding defects, the threshold stated is for insignificant defects; which I would understand to mean issues of condition that don't really affect the value of "lower value" pieces. I think this ties back not being responsible for grading.
I would agree the auction house's terms protect themselves from long term liabilities and hassles by avoiding indefinite and broad guarantees, especially for lower value stuff. That being said, I think they are being reasonable to expect buyers to buy responsibly. Other houses might have more lenient terms, but if I could as running a house, I'd feel these terms were fair. I might drop the threshold somewhat depending on the nature of my inventory; that seems higher IMO, probably covers 99% of numismatics.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
I think it's a big load of unsupportable BS. Take this, for example: Quote:
Insofar the statutory statues of limitations are applicable." Statutory statutes? (and they misspelled "statutes") Did they actually use "insofar?" LOL They are using legalese for all it's worth. I am reminded of ebay sellers who throw out garbage like this threatening potential buyers with actions the seller cannot even invoke. British legalese may be a tad more complicated, but it's all the same. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
03/23/2019 05:24 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5242 Posts |
As I read it, certainly anything significant like a fake coin would be covered regardless of the price.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3442 Posts |
An auction house does not necessarily own the items being sold
In some cases they do but usually sell on behalf of another person who supposedly has legal "title"
If it turns out the item is not legally owned by the consigner the auction house should have limited liability if they sold the item in good faith
A $1000 sale nets a commission (usually around 15%) from the buyer and a commission from the seller
Usually around 20%
So the consigner walks away with $800
Now over two years later you decide that a problem exists with legal title
You need to go after the guy who walked with $800
That sounds reasonable
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
616 Posts |
Thanks for the input.
The auction house is not on Forum's NFSL, but I have seen their name crop up once regarding a fake. They did accept the item back, and a one-off won't deter me from buying.
What will deter me is a missing guarantee of authenticity. Nowhere do they say they guarantee authenticity on their site or even in Google searches.
When the auction terms came up when I was looking at their coins, they scared me off.
Know the coin or know the seller. The auction house fails both tests - at least for now.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3442 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts |
Followup: I contacted the auction house directly and here's what they said:
Our descriptors have learned at renowned auction houses in munich and have many years of experience on describing and estimating coins. Every coin is proved and evaluated as original ancient. Unauthentic coins are NOT, in all conscience, sold by us.
Should there be doubt about the authenticity you are able to return the coin and get your money fully back. This is of course for as long as our company exists, so hopefully forever.
So I guess I'll add them back to my safe list.
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Replies: 7 / Views: 1,524 |
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Posted 03/23/2019 05:22 am
