Shipwreck Coin With Low Specific Gravity (1736 8-Real "Rooswijk")

Squire Wilson I agree that shorting coin by as little as 4% would be worthwhile. The English actually used a standard of 850 fine to provide an extra 5% to pay for the manufacture and transport of these counterfeits to China. The 25% premium paid for the coins by inland farmers meant a very neat profit of almost 30% per coin.

You are correct that the Chinese schroffs were not able to correctly distinguish an 850 fine silver coin from a 903 or 896 fine Mexican issue. It was the English who first introduced the schroff's to the principle of specific gravity for checking dollars in 1835. But the scales available were good enough to pick out coins under 800 fine not 850 fine. The English were not at all magnanimous in doing so. They did it as a means of self protection to avoid the even lower standard fakes being produced in China itself. There are records in diplomatic correspondence of 800 fine local counterfeits that were sent back to the London mint for testing. So SG testing was introduced so that the schroffs could reject these locally produced forgeries and in turn they would not be presented to the English for payment.

Your coin at 860 fine is just over the English standard in place in 1835.

When the US entered the same market about 50 years later they tended to produce coins at or near 900 fine (US standard for silver coin). This would avoid detection even with improved scales and it avoided making a distinct alloy. By the late 1870s silver was falling in price in relation to the newly adopted gold standard (1873). The 25% premium paid for silver coins bearing the Charles III and IV portraits was adequate to incentive to sell silver coming out of Nevada. The Trade dollar introduced for the same purpose was a failure and the US then turned to counterfeiting Mexican dollars to take advantage of the Chinese.

It is believed by some writers that the manufacture of these Class 2 silver counterfeits was not limited to just the US and England. I have read papers that implicate the Netherlands, Spain and even Mexico itself in the production. It was very likely that anyone capable of making decent copies of a Mexican Portrait 8R could profit in the same way. It was viewed as a legitimate business opportunity in many circles.

Hello, sorry to post on replies, but wasn't sure where to post this and this was the closest I found. I have a 1711 Peru 8 realest that I found at a garage sale for $4. I sent a pic to someone who deals with these quite a bit and he said it looked real to him. I was hoping someone here could give me your thoughts on it and what to do with it.

Hello Kimby0310

This is slightly out of my range of expertise but in my opinion the coin is most likely a tourist type replica of a cob coin.

Based on the legend it purports to be a 1711 Lima (L-mint mark) assayer M - 8 escudos (gold) of the typical colonial Spanish type, so it should weigh about 27 grams. The surfaces appear intact so the density should be 17.45 roughly. The coin should be gold (91% gold) if genuine and would be worth over $5,000. The melt value alone would be 80% of spot.

The problems as I see it are;

1. The lack of sharpness in the details and lettering.
2. The place of origin and cost - you never get a bargain like that.
3. The design of the Castles and Lion are wrong. The cross contains the crest of Castile and Lion of Spain.

Sorry but there is virtually no chance the item is real - but I would still test the weight and density to be positive.

As a Numismatic Forgery this is a $1 type item.

Offer the person who says this is genuine to sell it for $100 and see if his tone changes. This would be a joke the item as a NF should not be sold at all without the word COPY stamped into the surface.