Identification Of Counterfeits For Members Who Wish To Collect Them.

It is interesting to see what Bob has to say but this coin looks all wrong to me. Are you sure it is silver? Looks yellowish in the picture. I haven't seen any Mexican Durango mint 8rs with this kind of bird or where the date is right under the hat at the 6 O'clock position. It should be more in the 7 O'clock position.

Based on my amateur knowledge of this series, it looks to me like a base metal/low silver content forgery rather than a CCC

Thanks guys. I dont have the coin in hand yet. These pictures were provided by the seller. I can say with certainty it's not genuine but unable to rule out whether its contemporary or just a cheap fake. I took a gamble on it because it looks nothing like modern fakes I have seen either.

These are currently on ebay. I believe they are numismatic forgeries. Am I correct?

I wish there was a way to insert answers under a specific picture like facebook allows.

MaximillianMike The 1835 Durango PM is a CCC type that I have seen before at least 6 times. I own three including one that is very worn indicating a lengthy circulation. I love the eagle because it is a super crude rendering of the French Eagle design. If you check my Facebook entry I use a picture of the same type on my homepage. I bought my first on Cape Cod about 45 years ago when these were $5 curios. It is a crude fantasy - very interesting due to the poor engraving. The reversed s superscripts etc.. Most examples are struck in a low grade silver alloy - there are no Sheffield Plated copies that I am aware of. One copy I have seen is cracked like GS so I would date the type right around 1835 or shortly after. It is unknown to Riddell but so are many dozen others. It is likely a coin that circulated freely in some place other than New Orleans. (I suspect it was made north of NYC due to where I have encountered the type.

ChipDehart The 1796 and 1797 Potosi 8Rs are suspicious and both dates are known to have been in production in China recently. However, these two are not exact matches for the examples I have records of. This often happens with centrifugal castings where each impression in the mold tends to be unique in appearance - in particular surface texture and odd tiny stray lumps/marks. Look at the fields near the edges for what appear to be waves in the mold surface caused by the stamp pulling on the wet mold matrix.

The molds are normally circular made of a semi-flexible plastic with multiple impressions of the coin made from positive stamp impressions in the plastic before it hardens. These impressions are arranged to balance the entire mold around the center of gravity where the liquid metal is injected. There is a vent at the perimeter of the mold for each impression so air can be forced out by centrifugal pressure caused by spinning the mold.

The central color of both coins - the weak impression of the King's profile (see hook nose) and the lack of believable casual contact marks on the surfaces all make me very suspicious. I would check the seller's other sales for other similar offerings and of course look for tell-tale signs of a Chinese distribution offering.

I would need a bit more information to be 100% positive, but I would bid on them as Numismatic Forgeries only. Too risky for a high bid because they are essentially melt items.

The CCC Cap and Ray book is far from ready, it will depend on how many collectors are willing to share their collections. I believe this one will have many more pictures of coins and less in the way of text.
Albert The eagle you posted which looks yellow is what I would believe to be an early Numismatic Forgery. Most likely made in the 1940-1960 era to fool collectors before Cap and Ray coins became familiar to collectors. These are often brass with poorly applied silver washes. The design is crude and appears to be engraved OVER what may be a poorly made impact transfer. I would guess the date would be early mid Second Republic 1870-1880 (before standardization), but it would have been made sometime well after that. I have seen this one before and I have always classed it as a "recent" forgery not a CCC type. Note the raised rim around the perimeter of the coin. Looks like a "close collar" or possibly even a closed collar strike with an edge die. Do you have a picture of the edge - I suspect it might even be reeded.

nss-52 I agree with you that pictures are necessary - both sides and edge if possible. I will try to add the completed auctions but I am not sure I can insert them now.

Yes here is the edge taken around three places

This is another CCC that I acquired. It is an 1868 Zs YH 1 real struck on brass. It was recovered by the seller who metal detected it in Apaseo el Grande, Guanajuato. Swamperbob have you seen similar ones?

Albert, I like that. I have very minute traces of silvering on mine but not as much as yours. These are fun to collect when they come available. Thanks for sharing.

Swamperbob: The edge pictures came from 8R 1895 Mexico City. I can inspect the edge under my microscope or camera, but I may not be skilled enough to see or recognize what to look for. If I think I might know how overlapping may appear, I don't see any sign of that. It seems like every one of those edge marks have separation and none appear to be merged.

You mentioned a Caballito Peso. I have one from an unknown source. I could post pictures, maybe as a new topic if desired.