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1874 S Trade Dollar, Authentic? Or Fake?

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fortcollins's Avatar
United States
3663 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the punch line.

The coin I posted is a Serbian counterfeit 1874-S. It is within Weight Tolerance, but way off on specific gravity, won't pass an eddy current slide test, and is about 600 - 700 Hz off on a ping test.

Raw Trade dollars are dangerous. Even slabbed ones aren't certain. Both 1875-S and 1874-S counterfeits have been certified by major TPGs. At least with TPG certification, there is a guarantee, and I have never worried about a reputable TPG honoring the guarantee. The Chinese have a century of experience counterfeiting Trades, and the Russians and Serbs are darned skillful, too. The one thing none of them seem to get right is the reeding. On a suspect coin, always examine the reeding and count the reeds. If the reeding or number of reeds are wrong for the type, date, and mint, no further examination is needed.

A number of years ago, I was bitten by a counterfeit 1874-S, That experience spurred my interest in the modern counterfeiting processes. I am very wary of any raw Trade dollar since that experience.
Edited by fortcollins
07/03/2019 8:02 pm
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5833 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's some darn good fake fortcollins that even fool some of the TPG experts.
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Heymikep's Avatar
United States
824 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heymikep to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fortcollins, I saw that the coin you posted was a counterfeit and I did an overlay with the coin I first listed. I also did the overlay with the PCGS coin that I posted and it did align with It, it did not align with yours. Where can I find more information like reed counts for Trade dollars? Is there any place to identify die marriages as well?
What is amazing is that I have not seen any definitive comments on whether it is fake or if it is real. It looks like a mix of opinions from some very respectful members.
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fortcollins's Avatar
United States
3663 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Heymikep, I'm leaning toward genuine on your coin, despite sharing the real concerns about the denticles noted by Slider23. The surface is so badly marred by the torture somebody inflicted on it that I fear authentication from photos is impossible.

One excellent source of Trade dollar info is the book (booklet) by John Lazirko entitled "U.S. Trade dollars 1873-1878." I have seen copies, but never have been able to land one. IIRC, it was released by the U.S. Trade dollar Club, but I don't even know if that club still exists. It doesn't seem to have a web presence.

EDIT: The booklet isn't on the Newman Portal.
Edited by fortcollins
07/03/2019 10:50 pm
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Heymikep's Avatar
United States
824 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2019  11:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heymikep to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
fortcollins, thanks for the info.I did find the following on PCGS's website,
https://www.PCGS.com/books/silver-dollars
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