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How This Could Be?

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Valued Member
varord's Avatar
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2008  7:41 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add varord to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I bought recently 1853-O $1 gold graded by NGC MS63. Apparently by the certificate number it was graded long ago. The coin was so good, no a single even tiny hairline, it seems ti me must be MS64. I cracked coin and send back to NGC. And what was my surprise, it was graded MS61. How this coin, previously graded MS63 could be MS61?

How-This-Could-Be?


How-This-Could-Be?

And below are pictures of MS 61 NGC coins graded two weeks ago. Pictures taken from Heratage Auction archive. This is how $1 gold ms61 really looks like. This is not my coin, just an example from auction archive

How-This-Could-Be?

How-This-Could-Be?

Edited by varord
10/16/2008 2:29 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1231 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2008  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add onejinx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's how the crack-out game is played. One day it's a 63 the next it's a 61. Tomorrow it might be a 64.

It's how the TPG's make money.

That's why I don't play the plastic game. Why pay for an opinion, when I can post a coin here and get free opinions.
Valued Member
varord's Avatar
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2008  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add varord to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Plastic game also have some rules, and it falls in the range of 1 grade above-below, and generally it is predictable. The coin I submitted is in the range 63-64, with slight chances to be 62 and even less 65. Not 61 and not 66.

What is your opinion about this coin.
Valued Member
bqcoins's Avatar
United States
167 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2008  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bqcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Grading is subjective. If you want to call it 64 crack it out and call it 64, IF it meets the specifications for a 64. Otherwise you will accept the TPGs grading or crack it out and resubmit so many times that you actually get the coin back in the red (meaning you're eating all those submission fees).
Valued Member
varord's Avatar
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2008  9:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add varord to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know and I crack coins not very often, only when coin is obviously undergraded. In this case it is amazing that this coin could be 61. Even novice collector, not speaking professional grader will grade it 63 at least, as it was graded before. I posted this to inform that NGC is not that great company as its reputation will tell.
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daviscfad's Avatar
United States
4541 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2008  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daviscfad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it is a beautiful coin!
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2008  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
as you stated it was graded a long time ago, its according to how long ago to what their standards were at that time. The grading companies are in strict mode right now because they have been catching allot of slack about their lax grading so if they were generous at the time it was submitted the first time and they are strict now I can understand why it is 2 points less than it was the first time
Valued Member
varord's Avatar
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  01:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add varord to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK. I can understand your point. However the coin itself is not 61. Not even 62. It can be seen even from these pictures, while under 10x magnification coin looks almost perfect. I am confident, if I resubmit, it will be graded 63-64.

Actually I have not received the coin back yet, just the grading. So other possibility is it was damages somehow.
Rest in Peace
coinguybrian's Avatar
United States
5375 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  02:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinguybrian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes, they might think they see something that qualifies it for less. Maybe the strike, too. But it looks a LOT nicer than 61, I would completely agree. 61 coins usually don't look that nice.
Valued Member
varord's Avatar
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  02:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add varord to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is average strike, for this denomination I would say even good one. Perfect rim. I investigated coin, as you may guess, before submitting.

Will wait to see what condition it is now.
Valued Member
varord's Avatar
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  02:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add varord to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a good collection of $1 coins and know how 61 looks :)
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wwhitman's Avatar
United States
1415 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wwhitman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two suggestions:
Why not send it off to another TPG? They may have another opinion.
OR !!
Send it to me. I will grade - keep for awhile to admire - then send it back - maybe
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eaglefoot's Avatar
United States
6326 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eaglefoot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "resubmittal game" might very well produce yet another grade too !!
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wwhitman's Avatar
United States
1415 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wwhitman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with Eaglefoot.
Omit suggestion #1 and do the second
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  11:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could also easily be a mechanical error. Grader graded it a 64, types 64 on the numeric keypad on the computer and his finger slips down a little. What is right below the 4 on the keypad? Why it's a 1!

Your real mistake was cracking it out to send it back in to the same grading company. Should have just sent it in for a regrade still in the slab. You would have either gotten it back in the higher grade holder, left in the same holder, or if for some reason they did regrade it as a 61 you would have at least gotten paid for the difference in value. By cracking it you lost that payment.
Pillar of the Community
hadleydog's Avatar
Canada
1267 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2008  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hadleydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the grade does not fit,
you must re-submit!
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