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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,990 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
See the attached images. Here are the current specifics on the item: 1. 28.58 mm, 5.3 grams, cancellation hole obverse. 2. Hallmark triple box type either RHP or RWP. I believe RHP as I believe the uprights are just not perfectly upright in H. 3. Plain Edge. 4. Crude lettering and note KEX for REX in reverse legend. 5. XRF analysis: None at this time. Appears lighter than Ag - perhaps some tin based alloy. Will be performed in the coming weeks. Silver alloys and Debased silver alloys are prohibited from entering this counterfeit Family. In the meantime your opinions ... Some collectors consider this a 1792 Peruvian button. Although we see metal fallout in the central obverse area this appears not to be from a clasp removal? But it could be? Comments - opinions. Anyone ever see this three compartment hallmark before? RHP or RWP.    Edited by colonialjohn
09/15/2019 12:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7956 Posts |
The lettering (including Roman numerals) in the legend does not look at all right. Just a first impression. Edit: Obverse of a genuine 1792 Peru coin, 2 reales:  Edited by tdziemia
09/15/2019 3:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1757 Posts |
The question here is NOT is it real? Its not ... the questions are:
1. Is it an off-metal contemporary circulating counterfeit of the period? TBD by XRF.
2. Is it a button type 2 Reale like the Peruvian 8R 1805's in Gurney but of a 2R denomination?
3. Is it a contemporary circulating counterfeit (of the period or slightly later) once made into a button?
4. Any ideal of this silversmith hallmark?
I normally post here ONLY difficult inquires ... <BG>.
JPL
Edited by colonialjohn
09/15/2019 6:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7956 Posts |
Mea culpa for missing the point  I would just comment that it's hard to believe it ever could have been a serious attempt at counterfeiting since even a greenhorn like me could tell. Edited by tdziemia
09/15/2019 8:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Its been determined or voted as a button on another channel (Yahoo CCC group). The style, mint, surfaces (slight damage from some clasp removal?) on the obverse is in many ways SIMILAR to the buttons seen in Gurney's book on page 175 for these Peruvian 8R 1805 buttons. This is a much more rare lower denomination dated 1792. It also has a hallmark on the piece something not to EXPECT on a CCC. No other off-metal Kleeberg CCC 2R in existence has a hallmark and I never seen a hallmark even a debased Ag issue which are more common CCC's for 2R's.
Hence ... BUTTON. See CopperClem on the Internet if you have interest in this piece.
JPL
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
John, this is likely one of the Egyptian jeweler imitations dating from the early 1900s.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Realeswatcher - yes we agreed among us so-called experts it was a button - but you certainly put the FINAL nail in the coffin.
JPL
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Valued Member
Spain
108 Posts |
You are right, it is a Cairo jeweler work. The al-Sagha district had (and has) a jeweler market. Silver official marks in Egypt are three: first to the left richness (in arabic); central (cat for silver 1916-1946); and the right one is a letter in arabic or roman that indicates the year (in yours is a P that correspods to 1939-1940). Link for botonistica.es catalogue has changed http://www.botonistica.es/catalogo19/pgeneral.html in page 8 we can find Cairo Saga Series Edited by Veton
12/12/2019 05:22 am
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Valued Member
Spain
108 Posts |
About the use of this items, usually they were used as medals, pendants more than buttons. Also as part of pendants in Zar rituals (see #HSO6 in CEMI Catalogue). In order to date them I attach this table:  Egyptian silver hallmark are usually three, sometimes only the first to the left (richness and city). They hallmarked silver works with a cat from 1916 to 1946 and with a lotus flower since 1946 (center hallmark).  Items without hallmarks may be previous to 1916 or non silvermade (white metal, copper...) and also non-legitimate items (old or current: tourist sourvenir). I will try to read hallmarks from those of realeswatcher Edited by Veton
12/12/2019 05:22 am
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,990 |
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Posted 09/15/2019 6:18 pm
