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How Rare Are Doubled Die Pennies (Not Necessarily Major, But Non-Trivial)

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SamCoin's Avatar
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3237 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  3:56 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've searched through about $50 in pennies, looking very extensively for all the non-negligible errors I could find on Wexler's and Variety Vista, but I've found a grand total of... zero. point. zero. I have, however, found a small handful of quarter doubled die varieties (including several homesteads, a couple Wyomings, and one of the medium-degree doubled tree Minnesotas), but notably, none have been on eagle quarters, and all the doubling has been on single-squeeze era coins towards the center of the design (which I understand may be more common?). I'm not sure if I'm just missing doubled dies on pennies because they're so much smaller, or if they're just more rare than a doubled die on a quarter. Does anyone have any opinion? How many coins do you typically have to look at for every doubled die you find?
Edited by SamCoin
01/07/2020 3:58 pm
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Biedercoins's Avatar
United States
1602 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  4:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Biedercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know actual numbers, but they aren't common. If you're in a metro area where there are likely other roll hunters there's the confounding effect that the cents may have been searched before. My best luck has been getting smaller amounts from rural banks where they ask, "What do you want all these pennies for anyhow, eh?"

It really is a numbers game. You might want to familiarize yourself with some of the lesser knowns or recent issues (I know, I don't like Zincolns, either) as well as RPMs.

I've had the most success looking through ebay .
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SamCoin's Avatar
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3237 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the feedback, biedercoins! All good suggestions. My bank is kind of in between (a local bank on the outskirts of major city), but I have gotten all customer-wrapped rolls in the past. Maybe I'd do better to go for Brinks rolls.
Edited by SamCoin
01/07/2020 4:50 pm
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GrapeCollects's Avatar
United States
8938 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I live right out of DC and find a ton of "Bar" cents, which are Class IX DDRs. Usually at least half a roll to a whole roll per box.
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SamCoin's Avatar
United States
3237 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry for the stupid question, GrapeCollects, but mind if I ask what a "bar" cent is? It's not a term I've heard before. Thanks for the info!
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
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5887 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you have a LCS near you I suggest looking for Wheat cent bags. I find multiple class VI doubled dies and some nicer CPG listed doubled dies usually. RPMs are usually not too difficult to find in the wheat bags as well.

-CH27

Edit: messed up my Roman numerals-thanks TB
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
Edited by CoinHunter27
01/07/2020 8:53 pm
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heavymetal's Avatar
United States
303 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add heavymetal to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been through about 100,000 cents from the 60's up to mid 2000's since I got serious about searching and collecting. A couple of 5 gallon water jugs actually my grandfather had been saving. I still have about 30,000 or so left and have found about 30 doubled dies. Some very minor and the biggest being a 2004 p DDO / DDR. Patience is the key as it is very time consuming. You'll definitely find something eventually! Good luck!

This is what's known as a bar cent.
https://coppercoins.com/lincoln/die...ie_state=lds
Edited by heavymetal
01/07/2020 5:40 pm
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United States
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 Posted 01/07/2020  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oijogja to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate your question Sam, as I have been wondering about a corollary of this, which is what constitutes non-trivial? I get that at some point it's a personal call as to what you collect, but nonetheless I do wonder what "the community" would agree is non-trivial, or in other words, what's really collectible? As far as finding no penny varieties, that does seem like some bad luck. With no disrespect intended, it could be also that some eye training could help. I know that for me I used to find a whole lot of nothing, but now as I've become more familiar with what doubled dies look like and in particular how they arise, I'm finding more, albeit minor ones most of the time. In retrospect, I think I initially learned to look for what I thought a doubled die should look like -- think 1955 1c DDO-001. However, I think learning to recognize only the visual tends to produce a kind of exclusion bias -- if we don't see what we're looking for, it becomes irrelevant. These days I look for deviation from normal, not a certain image of what a doubled die ought to look like. I'm less looking for an certain image, but an understanding of what produced the image I'm seeing. This may not be the best way or anything, but it's certainly helped me see more. It does also seem to me that the single-squeeze era has produced considerably more varieties, but the vast majority of those are less striking than those of the preceding era, including a heap of what I gather many here would consider too minor to care about. I have certainly been hit with condescension more than once for sharing finds like that.
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tropicalbats's Avatar
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6116 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In general, I tend to post more substantial varieties or sometimes just obscure stuff folks may not be familiar with. But certainly I collect the lesser varieties as well. In general, though, a clear dividing line is whether it is listed or not. If it is listed it is collectible, if it is not then it either should be listed or is too minor. Having hundreds of slips around that say DDO (unlisted) isn't very satisfying, so if you really want to define what is collectible it would be to mostly stick to what is listed. Find something strong enough that isn't listed and send it in to an attributor and let them make the call. That said, it has to be pretty darn substantial before CONECA will accept it.

My experience with bank rolls, customer wrapped or otherwise, is that a few DDO's per box is expected, over 15 would be a nice haul and zero would be kinda rough. But most will be minor offsets on LIBERTY and the date for shield cents. And as Grapes notes, if you are into the DDR "bar" coins they are abundant.

I also agree with CoinHunter that starting with wheats is easier (although he means class VI not XI). There are just more things to find on wheats, and you rather quickly learn how to separate out the MD and coin dings from the real stuff.

And also as noted, once you start finding them, you will find more of them. But you are really onto it by looking at the shape of things instead of just looking for something "doubled". Lots of DDOs are easily visible by shape with no definable doubling so to speak.

Good luck and look forward to seeing your finds posted.
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SamCoin's Avatar
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3237 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Tropical! All a ton of great information. Am I correct in surmising that "bar" cents are the ones with DDR varieties that affect the columns of the Lincoln memorial? If so, these seem to occur much more frequently in single-squeeze coins and also are around the center of the coin, which made me think they're probably caused by the same process that produces the State Quarter errors I've seen. Is doubling on the devices less common than in other places on the coin?
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TwistedTrader's Avatar
United States
305 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwistedTrader to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have yet to find a DDO or DDR. Over $100 in pennies searched. My best find is my avatar an 1899 indian head. I have also found 1 RPM 1 rotated reverse and 3 Wide AM. I am not searching for the little miner bar ones. I search both customer wrapped rolls and machine rolled. It gets discouraging at times. It doesn't pay for my time. But I remind myself it's a hobby not a job.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
United States
74583 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2020  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my experience Coin Roll Hunting, they are pretty common, especially the minor Doubled Die varieties. I collect minor and major varieties. It also depends if you live in a big town, or not. Sometimes, there's a lot of searchers, while sometimes, there are little to none. I live in a small town with not really any hunters, so I have great luck most of the time. It also depends how good you are detecting the Doubled Dies and errors. The more knowledge you have, the better prepared you'll be to find stuff.
Errers and Varietys.
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