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How Far Back Can We Go? Sixth Edition! Ended At 1380 Waiting On 1379

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paralyse's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 10/03/2020  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1764 LCK - 1/12 Thaler (160 to the Mark)
Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

1764-W MP - 20 Kreuzer - Wurzburg
The smaller companion to the Thaler I posted just above

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 10/03/2020  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful coin IMO! One of my German States favorites.

1764-E IDB 2/3 Thaler
Clothed bust
Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel

20 to the Mark (Conventionsthaler Mark)

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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pepactonius's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2020  12:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1763 -- Duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld, 1 heller:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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 Posted 10/04/2020  12:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1763 -- Kingdom of Hungary, 1 poltura:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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1763 -- Kingdom of Great Britain, 3 pence:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2020  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great portrait on the B-L thaler, @parayse, and a great start to 1763.
Since we have mostly had contributions from Great Britain, the Holy Roman Empire states, France and Netherlands the last few weeks, here is some context for my posts of the next two months ...

For collectors of Polish coins (or more accurately the Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth), the next 75 years pose some issues (as well as some confusion). There were three monarchs, two of whom were also Electors of Saxony from the Albertine branch, and also the only two who minted coins. Just two monarchs in 75 years sounds pretty straightforward, right? Eh... not so much from a numismatic viewpoint...
Going backwards in time:
- Augustus III reigned 1733-63, known in Saxony as Frederick August II
- Augustus II (his father) 1697-1704 and 1707-33, known in Saxony as Frederick August I (the Strong)
- Stanislaw I Leszczynski (1704-1707), who contested the reign of Augustus II, successfully deposed him briefly, but never issued coins http://goccf.com/t/378111&SearchTerms=Stanislaw

Silver (and billon) coins from this era considered to be "Polish" bear the king's Polish-Lithuanian title (Augustus III or Augustus II Rex Pol M D L), even if minted in the Saxony mints of Dresden and Leipzig. Silver Polish coins were also minted at the "Free city" mints of Gdansk/Danzig (1753-63), Torun and Elbing (1760-63), and copper coins at the new mints of Grunthal and Gubin (1750-1755). The historic Polish "Royal" mints in Krakow, Bydgoszcz, Poznan, etc. were mostly inactive during this period.
However, from 1697-1753, there were also minor silver/billon coins (1 pfennig to 1/12 thaler) minted in Dresden and Leipzig, bearing a coat of arms obverse, but no legend. These are sometimes called Saxon-Polish, since they were made for circulation in both nations. The coat of arms obverse contains Polish, Lithuanian and Saxon emblems (different from the Saxony-Albertine coins we saw here for 1765, where the coat of arms contains only the historical Saxony elements).
We'll see a bit of all of these over the next couple of months (not just from me).

Here is a 1763 Polish solidus minted in the city of Elbing with the monogram of Augusts III obverse.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Edited by tdziemia
10/04/2020 07:36 am
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2020  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a 20 Kreuzer from the German City State of Brandenburg Ansbach dated 1763 AD:


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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-----Ghanaian proverb

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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2020  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A pair of 1763 Bishopric issues!

I am listing this here as a 1763 if no one objects

176x - 1/12 Thaler - Münster

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

And here is a 1763 1/12 Thaler from Hildesheim, in better shape.

160 Pieces to the Mark

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

Many of the German States / HRE minors and local issues from this era are billon, with less than .500 fineness. In order to preserve some appearance of being worth their denomination, the planchets were not downsized, but struck very thin, and very lightweight. The Hildesheim coin above is 20mm in diameter but weighs a scant 2.75 grams (as struck, before wear.) 60 years earlier, the same denomination from Hildesheim (3 Mariengroschen or 1/12 Thaler) weighed 3.35 grams as struck.

This trend (debasement, hyperinflation, revaluation) has been an ongoing economic and numismatic phenomenon since the days of the Roman Empire.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
10/04/2020 6:20 pm
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2020  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am listing this here as a 1763 if no one objects


Well...I'm not. I have a few coming up later this month that are split between years. Always nice to see unusual types on this thread, where lots of CCF members are looking.
Edited by tdziemia
10/04/2020 7:14 pm
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Princetane's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2020  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pepactonius - Love that 3d

Now we are in 1763, the British silver coin drought has nearly ended, from 1758 back to the 1660s we will see a range of high quality dated British silver coins!

The earlier milled era is coming!

Ironically not seen yet is a Northumberland shilling in which some £1000 worth of shillings (20,000) were minted by the Duke of Northumberland and these coins dated 1763 are incredibly scarce, rumour has it more than 20k were minted. It was the only shilling between 1757 and 1787.
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NumisRob's Avatar
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 Posted 10/05/2020  03:44 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1762 Great Britain threepence:
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 Posted 10/05/2020  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Poland, 30 groszy, Gdansk mint. Not sure what happened to this coin to give the very uneven patina
Augustus III was not a very handsome guy, and unfortunately I have a handful of other denominations covering the next two weeks bearing more or less the same portrait. He was more interested in the arts and hobbies than statecraft, spending a total of only 3 years in Poland during his 30 year reign. On the other hand, he was a faithful and devoted husband to his only spouse, Maria Josepha Hapsburg, with whom he had 16 (!) chidren.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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 Posted 10/05/2020  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1762 -- City of Bocholt, 21 heller:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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 Posted 10/05/2020  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1762 -- Kingdom of Great Britain, 3 pence:

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How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Sixth-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
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