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 Replies: 33 / Views: 4,886 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
Typically, I don't like to bid on coins from sellers that have a "No Return" policy. Many CCF'ers have suggested to avoid such sellers and for obvious reasons. But one item really caught my eye and I figured I'd ask some questions about it and mention my reluctance to bid due to "No Returns"...worth a shot, right? Apparently I really insulted this seller and he actually blocked me from bidding. Just as a gut check, was my inquiry insulting? Has anyone dealt with this seller before? I'll definitely try to choose my words more carefully when contacting sellers in the future, but...  My note to 'sethscollectables': Can you tell me anything about the coin's luster. I can discern some luster from your photos, but can you describe the luster or possibly provide additional photos that show the luster better? You indicate: This coin is presented in "as acquired condition". Can you tell me where you acquired it? I typically make a point not to bid on coins from sellers that do not accept returns. Most coins are evaluated best in person, and it is often challenging to fully assess a coin's condition from two-dimensional photos. I'm happy to pay return shipping if you want. No returns will definitely limit your pool of potential buyers.
Thank you. 'sethscollectables' response: Greetings, First off, with just the volume of coins I am currently *behind* on processing (literally hundreds...) and what it takes in the way of time, effort, equipment, acquiring the merchandise, monetary investment, etc., to "process" and offer a coin for sale on ebay, all that in addition to keeping the posted listings monitored, it is not possible for me to grade and individually comment on every single coin. Second, I can not see and evaluate the coin from your perspective, nor can I do that objectively as the seller of the coin. Anything I say can be construed as "bias"... Third, any representation I make about the coin is like making a statement to a police officer with ebay.... It can and *will* be used against me. I have had it happen too many times (like every time...) to get caught on that fence again. I post these listing in an *ATTEMPT* to make a profit so I can truthfully tell my wife I have a business I am conducting here, not something to "make a little extra" or "pay for my hobby"... and there are many factors making it increasingly difficult to do that... (hint, hint...) Fourth and last, I find your questions, especially the one asking "where I acquired the coin", intrusive and ill-mannered to say the least and have taken insult to the overall timbre of your queries. You are the type of "customer" that has inspired me to place the disclaimers in my listings. My advice to you would be, since you have such concerns and probably even *trust* the opinions of grading services like PCGS and NGC, to buy coins credentialed with their opinion so you can blame them instead of me when the coin does not meet *your* expectation. Best wishes elsewhere and happy coin hunting to you. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5661 Posts |
Wow, you really struck a nerve. If I was going to block someone, I wouldn't waste all that time explaining things. Looks like he sells a fair number of coins, and his feedback is pretty good. I suspect he stopped accepting returns after dealing with a couple of unhappy buyers, since it does take time to deal with returns. It definitely will limit his buyer pool and probably the final prices on his auctions, but that's his choice. I thought your request was respectful, but he probably thought it raised a red flag.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6514 Posts |
Wow. You certainly caught him in a bad mood.
I thought your inquiry was thoughtful and respectful.
He sure had the time to write you and vent though.
Check out my counterstamped Lincoln Cent collection: http://goccf.com/t/303507 |
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Valued Member
United States
81 Posts |
Your note seemed reasonable to me. Quite the temper tantrum you triggered there.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2023 Posts |
For someone with less than 150 items on ebay at the moment, and about a dozen sales within the last month, being "literally hundreds" behind in processing is barely credible, especially if he's going to maintain 99.7% feedback. He appears to be an established seller with moderate inventory, but frankly, if I were him, I wouldn't know how to reply to your message either. Taking additional photos takes time he might not have, and "describe the luster" is asking for a very subjective response that you may not agree with. "Are there any spots or distracting marks" is easier to answer but still can be disputed. How he acquired it, I'm not sure what difference that makes, as much as what kind of condition the coin is actually in -- but that's what you're trying to figure out anyway. If I were selling just a couple of coins as a collector shifting things around, I'd probably respond to your message much more personably. But a dealer who's been burned a couple of times may not want the hassle. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
Let's hope he was just having a bad day. Sorry you ended up taking the brunt of it. I've come across this many times, a handful of times on ebay, but more often at shows. Basically the seller just has passed a point in their numismatic career where any work beyond a bare minimum listing is too much and not worth it, including marketing points such as being welcoming and helpful and identifying the coin. They are just there to get paid without being bothered anymore. I'm sure we've all felt that way in our own previous jobs and took it as a sign to find something else more enjoyable. Fortunately, there are always newer and motivated sellers who care that push those that don't care to serve out if the market. Hopefully the Coin Spirits smile on you and you get a nicer version soon enough. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1527 Posts |
I thought both sides were very thorough and fair in what was said and explained, as well as everyone held off on rude language. nicely done on both sides.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
I think you were ok in your questions. I have sold on ebay for years. Until recently It is really just not worth the hassle anymore. Since ebay and paypal have adjusted their policies lately, not to mention their pro buyer mentality; a lot of buyers take advantage. Buyers pay taxes now and a lot of them are not happy. ebay takes taxes for shipping. Paypal now will not return their fee when a return is made. Buyers claim "not as described" and paypal automatically takes the money out of your account, keeps their feels and YOU have to pay the shipping back. Sometimes the shipping is not worth the return, and a lot of unscrupulus people know it. I went from having a return or two every couple years to a couple each month. None of this applies to you. I'm just pointing out that it really is a bad time to be a seller and you might have just caught him on a bad day. I will usually take extra pics when asked. It does depend on the price point though. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5822 Posts |
Is better to be a buyer than a seller on ebay when selling raw coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5661 Posts |
Quote:
being "literally hundreds" behind in processing is barely credible I took that to mean he had hundreds of coins to photograph and list, not that he had that many yet to ship. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2023 Posts |
Quote:
I took that to mean he had hundreds of coins to photograph and list, not that he had that many yet to ship. You're probably right. Either way, it screams "I don't want to deal with this." The question was way more polite than the response. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
PayPal no longer returns the fees to sellers on a return so returns cost sellers a significant amount of money especially if they had offered free shipping. Any dictation or hint that a buyer is already thinking of returning something before buying it is going to be a black from 99 percent of sellers.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3733 Posts |
let's make the first thing clear, even if a seller states no returns, that is not binding, there is no such thing as no returns, that is just a seller trying to scare off looky loo's..
secondly if the seller doesn't want to respond appropriately to your questions, then move on to another seller who does..
sellers, get burnt all the time, and many have grown thick skin, so if you ask too many questions,, you may sound like a tire kicker, and sellers, don't want to pay for shipping both ways and fees, for you to look at a coin, and then return it..
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10635 Posts |
 with silverwolf. There is no such thing as no returns. Buyers are kings on ebay, and they will go any length to keep them. I also agree your questions were respectful and to the point. The seller must have had an after thought that you were trouble, and he'd rather take his chances with another buyer. You did nothing wrong, but ebay breeds sellers like him, unfortunately. There are a few good, honest sellers on ebay, and there'll be other coins, keep looking!  |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Just to expand on this no returns thing. There are always returns if the item is fake, damaged during shipping, different than what was ordered. There are not always returns when sellers have no returns listed because you change your mind, don't like it as much as you thought, decided to use ebay as an approval services etc. It is entirely unethical and 100 percent wrong to make up a significantly not as decried case to force a return when the seller delivered exactly what was shown and the buyer purchased it freely knowing the listing said no returns. You can always ask for an exception afterwards but if the seller says no that is their right |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10635 Posts |
Not true. All a buyer has to do is to click the "item not as described" box asking for a reason for a return, and bingo! ebay automatically refunds on seller behalf. This has always been ebay's policy, this is nothing new. Sure, there are bad sellers just as there are good sellers, and there are good and bad buyers too. Regardless, the buyer is always right in a question if the item is "as described" or not. |
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Replies: 33 / Views: 4,886 |
Posted 01/22/2020 10:24 am
