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PCGS Vs. ANACS... Which One Was Closer On The Grade... You Make The Call!

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Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2020  11:34 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Ran across this recently. I know this is a hot-button topic, but come on now!


PCGS-Vs.-ANACS...-Which-One-Was-Closer-On-The-Grade...-You-Make-The-Call!

I know, buy the coin, not the holder. But I think there has got to be a limit somewhere. But hey, I keep an open mind... all I got to say is that I REALLY would have to keep an open mind on this one.

In my opinion only, I repeat... In my opinion only... oh nevermind. I

mike
Pillar of the Community
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GrapeCollects's Avatar
United States
8938 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2020  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU58 IMO Neither got it right to me. Not MS but close, but not a details coin either.
Bedrock of the Community
basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2020  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Come on what? He clearly didn't agree with the first grade hence it was cracked out and resubmitted. All over the place grades like calling that a 55 Details is one of the reasons wh lower tier TPGs are lower tier.
Rest in Peace
dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2020  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That was one of the (many) big wins for CBD.
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2020  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look, I know that this is an endless and futile debate. But a 9 point spread, going from an AU55 details to a straight MS64 just does not seem like very much consistency between TPG. I am not saying who is right, who is wrong, who is better or who is worse, etc.

One thing that some may agree on, however, that IN THIS PARTICULAR EXAMPLE shakes the perception that ANACS overgrades EVERY COIN EVERY TIME.



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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2020  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But a 9 point spread, going from an AU55 details to a straight MS64 just does not seem like very much consistency between TPG.


There's a reason why TPGs aren't all considered equal.
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BuyGuns's Avatar
United States
335 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2020  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BuyGuns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Was reading this report on the TPG's with some history and a test the writer did to compare four main TPG services. Interesting read. Just posted if interested. I am only a 'Pebble of the Community' so I will leave this discussion to the Bedrocks and Pillars (It is noted that 'maybe' there is a bit of ICG promotion here, but let the reader decide). Carry on.....

Attribution:

RARE COIN INVESTOR / MARKET REPORT
(No date given)

PCGS vs NGC vs ANACS vs IGC
JSilvestri

Have you ever wondered why some people say PCGS is better than NGC and so on. One of the main reasons, is that PCGS tends to grade harder on coins is to keep their numbers low on the population reports. This gives the illusion that they are a better grading company because there are fewer coins graded at the higher levels.

This pattern is usually noticed in coins graded MS65 and above. Why is this? Well numbers wise, PCGS has 6-8% less graded coins in MS65 or above than NGC across the boards. This gives the look of rairty to collectors. Although there are many exceptions on an individual coin basis, the bottom line is what seems to matter to collectors. It means that in buying a PCGS coin the quality is going to be higher because they are more strict in their grading specifications.

This is not always true. Over a 4 month period I sent 10 of the same raw coins to the top 4 grading companies. I varied the sending of the coins to these grading companies, but all 4 got to grade all 10. PCGS coins came back : 4- MS65, 3-MS66 & 2-MS67. ANACS coins came back 6-MS66 & 4 MS68. NGC coins came back 1-MS66, 4-MS67 & 5-MS68. IGC coins came back 8-MS67 & 2-MS68.

A lot of collectors are unsure about IGC, but let me say this, I have sent many coins thru them lately and they have been very consistent. Also a lot of collectors complain that PCGS grades lower just to keep this elite image,and at the same time keep the value of the coins high for dealer premiums. By not matching higher grades consistently, they keep the population of the higher graded coins lower, in turn keeping them rare. In researching each company I found this:

ANACS - ESTABLISHED IN 1972
One of the top four grading companies. Once owned by the ANA and the first third party service to authentic and grade coins. In the early 1970's the ANA Board of Governors recognized that something significant needed to be done about the counterfeit and altered coins that were plaguing the coin community. Their solution was ANACS, the American Numismatic Association Certification Service. ANACS began with a staff of two experts with Washington, D.C. as it's home.

Washington was chosen in order to utilize the Smithsonian's Numismatic Collection and to be near the Treasury Department, specifically the Secret Service. ANACS certified its first coin as genuine on June 15, 1972. In 1976, ANACS was moved to Colorado Springs where ANA had its headquarters. Three years later, ANACS began grading coins using the technical grading standards that the ANA had established earlier with its book, "The Official American Numismatic Association Grading Standards for United States coins".

Holders are nice
Not as consistent with grading
Grades/slabs problem coins (net graded)
Attributes errors and varieties
Submission prices are reasonable
Submission are thru Authorized Dealers or Direct
Free Membership and access to Population Report

PCGS - ESTABLISHED IN 1985
One of the top four grading companies and the one most accepted for "sight unseen" trading. PCGS is part of Collectors Universe, who's primary owners/CEO's are among the nations largest coin dealers. In their "About Us" page they claim to have started the first third party grading system. This is NOT TRUE because ANACS certified it's first coin on June 15, 1972. 13 years earlier.

Nice Holders
Grading is pretty accurate
Does not grade problem coins
Attributes errors a varieties
Highest priced for submissions, especially on errors
Customer service is OK
Submissions are thru Authorized Dealers or Collectors Club Members
Collectors Club Membership starts a $49.95 per year

NGC ESTABLISHED IN 1987
One of the top four grading companies. Some of the owners are also major dealers.

Nice holders
Grading is not always consistent
Submission prices reasonable
Does not grade problem coins
Attributes errors and varieties
Submissions are thru Authorized Dealers, Collector Club Members or ANA Members
Collectors Club Membership - $99.00 per year

ICG - ESTABLISHED IN 1987
One of the top four grading companies. Owners/graders do not buy, sell or trade in coins. ICG owners and employees are not allowed to buy or sell coins. If caught they lose their jobs and any stock the hold in the company! Most importantly, ICG offers expert, consistent grading by some of the most respected names in the business. ICG also has the INTERCEPT insert ring, the only company with this product. They tend to be tough on gold and easier on modern proofs.

Great holders
Grading is accurate and consistent
Does not grade problem coins
Attributes errors and varieties
Certifies and grades Ancient coins
Customer service is fast and friendly
Unbiased grading. No possibility of bias because all coins are submitted to ICG through a third party receiving company. This guarantees no conflict of interest - ever!
Submissions are through Authorized Dealers or the Collectors Club Alliance.

Collectors Club Membership Fee is $15.00 which is credited towards your first order, plus 5 free coin grades when you submit 5 other coins at ICG regular 15 day service.
Valued Member
4504's Avatar
United States
379 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2020  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 4504 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IN MY OPINION ONLY... Pigs will fly before that particular coin is really a MS64. Per Sheldon...

"Mint State 64 MS64 Coin has good, overall average luster and even strike for the type. Several small contact marks in groups, as well as one or two moderately heavy marks may be present. One or two small patches of hairlines may show under low, (3-4x) magnification. Noticeable, light, scuff marks or defects may be seen within the design or in the field. Attractive overall quality with a pleasing eye appeal. Copper coins may be slightly dull".

mike
Pillar of the Community
Cdncoins's Avatar
Canada
999 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2020  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cdncoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Either way it's a very nice coin! Hard to give an accurate grade without having it in hand.
Valued Member
299 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2020  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add freddo30 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the ultimate question is "would I pay MS64 PCGS money for this coin ?" my answer would be "no, thank you."
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