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 Replies: 11 / Views: 3,924 |
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
Since ebay can only go so far when it comes to monitoring their coin sales, I like to do a little patrolling from time to time. Of course there's many people trying to scam you on there. However, there's also a whole bunch of people who think they have something truly valuable and are just trying to sell it on ebay fair and square to make some cash. I guess I'm the one that comes in and crushes their dreams. When I have facts and encourage them to research such things for themselves they are usually disappointed (especially the guy with the off center 1955 doubled die) but often they remove or relist, whichever is more fitting. However I have found this pci graded 1804 Half Cent that is listed as a plain 4 with stems, just as pci has it graded. You Half Cent enthusiasts know this one is pretty uncommon, only one die pairing makes up the variety(c-11). However this coin in the pci holder is not that. I first saw it when the stems didn't line up at all. Then I noticed the obverse Cud and matched it with the bump on reverse above R, and sure enough, call me crazy, but it's a c-9. I mean of all the crosslet 4s they graded the super recognizable c-9 at its most recognizable die state as a plain 4 just because they couldn't see the crosslet? That's ridiculous. Well I messaged this guy with all the facts and pictures and encouragement to research... long story short he doesn't agree. He says I should do my research. The item number is 323963385948. I'm attaching pictures. ebay needs to change some things. They say you can't use grades assigned by any unapproved grading services, but they can show in the pictures what it says as long as it's not the first picture. I don't think they should be able to show anything on the card in any pictures. A grade is one thing, but when someone with less knowledge and more money than me sees a company that encapsulates coins said that this coin is a rare coin, that's just not fair. I see scammers get shut down all the time but every now and then I see positive feedback left for a coin that I know wasn't as described, but they still paid for it. ebay does a lot. With their money back guarantee and grading requirements. But when someone doesn't know the coin they paid $2499 for is really a replica or altered coin those rules do nothing. Sorry if it took me too long to get the point out. This is my first real post on here.  Hoping I did the photos right.    |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
 to CCF. John1  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5241 Posts |
to the CCF You could spend your life trying to correct all the mistakes in ebay, deliberate or accidental. I suggest just moving on. |
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New Member
 United States
5 Posts |
Thanks for the welcome guys. I should've explained better.. I'm not out searching for these problems. But when I come across one on the search to expand my collection I am going to say something. There's been quite a few times I either saved an unknowing buyer a lot of money or an unknowing seller bad feedback. I'll take a couple minutes for a message to do that.
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
I just finally made a post about this one in particular because all the forces are working together. An inaccurate grading with ebay's allowance to show the grading in pictures has left this guy with the perfect opportunity to scam someone. There's many coins with inaccurate descriptions that the seller just isn't going to change. I just have to assume someone who wants to buy such an item will look closely and see it's not as described. It's just with this one someone may consider the pci grading "proof" of the variety and it shouldn't be allowed to be shown. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4592 Posts |
That's a 30-year-old slab, so a lot of people have bought it for the label not the coin over the years.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
Yeah, that's a real shame, BStrauss3 I have to imagine that there's a small grading company out there that has a very knowledgeable staff and only the best of intentions. However, I don't believe PCI was ever that company. Here's a clip from an article on coinweek PCA Collectibles, Inc. of North Lindenhurst, New York, PCA Owners Anthony J. Delluniversita and his son, Paul A. Delluniversita and PCI Coin Grading company misled Corpus Christi stockbroker Bonnie Pereida "into buying coins that were counterfeit, damaged or worth only a fraction of what they were represented to be." I think any respectable person should remove a coin from a pci slab, at least before they sell it, but probably as soon as they get it. I removed a 1913 d Lincoln Cent from a pci holder long ago. It was listed as ms 64 but was an au 53 at best. I just thought it looked stupid in there. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
Here's a clip from an article on coinweek
PCA Collectibles, Inc. of North Lindenhurst, New York, PCA Owners Anthony J. Delluniversita and his son, Paul A. Delluniversita and PCI Coin Grading company misled Corpus Christi stockbroker Bonnie Pereida "into buying coins that were counterfeit, damaged or worth only a fraction of what they were represented to be." True but the coin pictured was not slabbed by that ownership of PCI. The ones in the article is the sixth ownership of the company, while the slab pictured is from the first ownership. It is still incorrectly attributed, but no fraud was intended. As for a small grading company with a very knowledgeable staff, that would be SEGS. Of the top five companies (and they are usually ranked fifth) they are the least likely to get attributions wrong. |
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
Conder101 I did know they have had many owners. I didn't know which number they were on to slab this coin, or which one to get the $2 million lawsuit against them. But considering they were that far apart I really wouldn't trust what any pci slab reads. Of course most people on here know to still examine the coin in ANY slab and not just take their word for it. I have a couple PCGS slabs with mechanical errors, but nothing that claims a higher value, at least like this one.
I have seen some of these segs slabs, I would agree they're probably the next best. Maybe even 4th on top of icg.
I understand it's difficult to have the grading accuracy that PCGS and NGC have. It takes a whole bunch of experts on board with at least a couple looking at each coin.
Being no expert myself, however, I know it doesn't take much to avoid inaccurate variety atributions. Some are very difficult to distinguish (not this one) no shame in not putting the variety and reimbursing those who paid extra to have it stated. At least in my opinion. Shame on whoever slabbed this coin, though.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4592 Posts |
For the record, PCI had several iterations (3?) of the green labels. The last of them was, meh. Then the Gold box. Terrible. Somebody else bought them and make "fake" green labels (you can tell because the microprinted PCI in the box on the back is blobs not microprint). Then the fraud guys bought it... the RICO finding was over-turned on appeal (over-reach), but the findings of fact stood and the damage award less the RICO enhancement stood too. Never saw any indication it was paid, just a "for sale at bankruptcy auction" that was cancelled. I've never seen one that could be positively dated to this period, but I have my suspicions - check ebay for a gold columns and the letters PCI on coins like key date morgans selling for $1500. After that, (and it might have gone through one more set of hands), DLRC bought it, rebranded as DGS (Dominion Grading Service) and ran it for maybe a year. A couple more ownership changes - including the labels that look like trains on a track - and it finally seems to have died. At least last I checked the web site was a for sale parking page. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The owner that did the "fake green labels" was the owner immediately after DLRC, and before PCA Collectibles bought it. Another way to recognize the "fake green labels" is it uses the font from the first generation in the word Mintage, but the numerals are from the font used on the second generation.
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Valued Member
Australia
145 Posts |
"Good On Ya"Mustang Mike! Your a legend1! Keep on exposing people who make honest mistakes and the one's who are just scammers.
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Replies: 11 / Views: 3,924 |
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Posted 02/04/2020 06:40 am
