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Help Id'ing Ancient Coins (Byzantine? Constantine? Assyrian?)

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New Member

Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  01:53 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi Everybody,

You'll have my apologies for being so new, with such a bland and undescriptive title. What you see here are three coins, but my issue is that I have a total of 21 ancient coins that I feel are from various countries and rulers. They come from a region that had many travelers, traders and pilgrims of the old world.

tl/dr I was in the Army once upon a time, and I received these as a gift from an Iraqi man I worked with (like, 15 years ago). I have no idea what they are, and with literally hundreds of websites with thousands of photos, trying to nail down what country or time frame to begin a search is neigh impossible (particularly when each coin is potentially a new era/ruler/country etc.).

This is why I have turned to you fine folks - the experts, who I know will have some semblance of knowledge beyond what I could find.

So I humbly ask you - does anyone know what era any one coin shown here is? [Roman, Greek, Byzantine, etc?] Is there somewhere I could post all of my images (I have them in high-res) to refer others to? Is there any one-stop shop for trying to identify a myriad of ancient coins? Will I ever find out anything about these, you think?

I sincerely thank you all,
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?

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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  03:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the community

I believe your first coin is Zengid Atabegs of Sinjar and is of Al-Amjad Faith al Din "Umar b. Muhammad 1219-1220 AD.

The others I'm not sure of.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  03:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree on #1, an extremely rare coin and of some value if genuine, even in rough condition. The king's titles in Arabic are still legible in the obverse margin: al-malik al-Amjad Fath al-Dunya wa al-Din. The reverse cites the 'Abbasid caliph al-Nasir li-Din Allah and the king's Ayyubid overlord al-Ashraf Musa bin Abi Bakr. Unfortunately, there may an issue with provenance. Iraq has very strict laws regarding private ownership and export of antiquities, including coins.
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
https://cNGCoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=163313
Edited by Kushanshah
02/09/2020 04:36 am
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MetDet71's Avatar
United Kingdom
1565 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  06:14 am  Show Profile   Check MetDet71's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MetDet71 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Good spot on coin number one Ron.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe #2 may be a Roman Provincial from Rhasaena (Rhesaena), Mesopotamia. The reverse shows a head of Tyche to the left of a centaur shooting an arrow. For comparison:
https://cNGCoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=129752


Number 3 appears to have a vexillium/vexillum reverse. I suspect it may be from that same city (Rhasaena/Rhesaena), perhaps a Caracalla.
Edited by Kamnaskires
02/09/2020 12:46 pm
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some illustrations from Coinage of Rhesaena in Mesopotamia at http://numismatics.org/digitallibra...695/nnan8633

For #2 (you can just barely make out the spearhead to the right of the obverse portrait on the OP coin):
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?

Perhaps number 2 or 9 for coin 3?:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Edited by Kamnaskires
02/09/2020 10:56 am
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow - you folks are all over it! I thank you for what you all have been able to bring to light thus far.

Re: provenance; Kushanshah you have hit on something here. Please recognize me for the ignorant that I (am?) was - At the time I was a younger man and I had no real thought about the international/ legal implications of this gift. I was just happy to be leaving Iraq alive, and as we went through customs the coins were in a bag with my things (no one said anything about them at the time, right wrong or indifferent).

Naturally, as the years have gone by it has given me some thought that accepting them may not have been the right thing to do. I believe what lends truth to this particular coin (the Zengid) is that the man was from Sinjar, and we routinely operated in the Sinjar / Tal'Afar / teritorial north-west Nineveh province. He was my interpreter's father, actually.

The gentlemen told me that farmers routinely would find these types of things when they were plowing their fields to sow barley. I do know on top of Mt. Sinjar there was a small temple or shrine (we had a small radio transmitter on top of it we would resupply). While I do not feel that these are or were in any way stolen or from a museum, they are indeed part of that country's history. Perhaps it is a misfortune that I have come to own them, I honestly cannot say.

I have no intentions of selling any of these, mind you - I have just always been curious as to what they are, where they came from (and then I could at least research those societies for a deeper revelation about those people).

Would anyone like to see the other 18? The picture optimizer here actually made uploading those pretty easy.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Would anyone like to see the other 18?


Yep.

Might be best to continue as you did here - just a few per post. (A pile-on can be overwhelming)
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2020  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, please post one or two at a time in separate threads.
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2020  01:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All, as requested (and with my humble gratitude). Some of these have / are barely distinguishable. For those, apologies. One or two I think I have perhaps found (and in such case I will state what I think it might be).

For now: A:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
I am not sure the above is even facing the right way (or in a way that makes whatever that is distinguishable).
B:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
C:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2020  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
D:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
E:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
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F:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2020  01:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
H:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
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I:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
[It is possible H&I are the same denomination / coin?]
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2020  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
J:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
K:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
L:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2020  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
M:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
N:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
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O:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2020  01:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
P:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Q:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
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R:
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
Help-Id'ing-Ancient-Coins-Byzantine?-Constantine?-Assyrian?
In poking around this and other forums last night, I did randomly find an image similar to R, and it is possible that this is a Constantine II as Caesar /Jupiter with victory on a globe? The instance I found that looks similar is https://nobleromancoins.com/product...ucts_id=2297

But there were a few discrepancies, in particular on the Jupiter depiction below the dot on the right side, the character there seems different between the two. Another mint? A different issue? I dunno.
New Member
Australia
12 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2020  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Shrike2050 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There you are.

I greatly appreciate any info and insights you share. I believe that the various conditions of some vice others (the last three in particular) are due to the totality of the coins coming from different parts of the Sinjar region (so, possibly from different spots, depths, conditions, etc.)?

I gracefully accepted the gift, but didn't ask the gentleman specifics, or get more about them, other than he told me that they came from Sinjar and he wanted me to have them, since I always showed interest in both the Iraqi / Arab and Yazidi cultures. He gave them to me because he felt I would appreciate them and remember my time in Iraq with his son fondly since I had treated his son very well as my interpreter. He was some form of councilman, or elder/representative in the town of Sinjar. They may have been his personally, or from some private collection of friends of farmers. I honestly don't know.

I just know that despite everything that occurred there, I do appreciate them and I do look back on the friendships that I made with many Yazidis, and hope that they are all still doing well today. Any info on these I can at least collate and print out to store with them so that I always know their histories.
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