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Would This Be Considered A Double Die? 1997 LMC

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67 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2020  7:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Fernagh to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
*** Edited by Staff to Add Year / Mintmark / Denomination to Title. Titles are Important! ***

Can anyone tell me if this is a double die?
It's a 1997 Philadelphia mint penny
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC

*** Moved by Staff moved to a more appropriate forum. ***
Edited by Fernagh
05/08/2020 7:21 pm
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2020  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Guessing slight Machine Doubling?
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2020  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The difference between hub doubling and Machine Doubling. Note the curved devices and ask yourself: Does the affected areas look enlarged or reduced. Note on the affected devices, those areas are reduced on these devices. There are doubled dies on this area of devices, but what to look for on them? They are called class 2 doubled dies:

Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Now lets look at some of these to see what to look for:
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
On these doubled dies the spread can be at the top or bottom of the devices. depending on the doubling whether towards the rim or towards the center of the hub on the creation of the die. What can cause this? having a different hub during the creation of the die. A different hub state, or the hub was damaged/worn when being used to complete the run that day. To us we view the dies created as a single one at a time. But hundreds of dies are completed. Also keep in mind before the single squeeze dies, the hub process took more than one process to create a die. The die would be softened, and the hub applied and the die would rest. This would happen several times usually 3 times. Larger coins even more. So the hub could be worn/aging/distorted/warped/damaged during this process. Maybe a new hub would be introduced. So the different hub state, could create a doubled die and not even factoring in an alignment issue. So on these images, take a look at the affected areas? Do you see the area near the rim show notches, widen base of the devices enlarged curve on this area. On the coin above, note the Machine Doubling is showing a reduction of these devices. So I'm going to show more examples of these as these are minor ones. What do the major ones look like?
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
While the next one looks like Machine Doubling, note that the devices are taller:
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Compare to these machine doubled examples below. Note the affected areas are flat, reduced even smaller than normal devices:
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Note how the Machine Doubling reduces the devices?

So here are a few more images to show the class 2 hub doubling. While minor, they are examples on 1962 proof cents:

Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Would-This-Be-Considered-A-Double-Die?-1997-LMC
Hope this helps. I've got a whole lot more images to post. Just helping to train the eyes on what to look for on doubled dies and how Machine Doubling is a reduction of the devices.
Edited by coop
05/08/2020 8:57 pm
  Previous TopicReplies: 2 / Views: 625Next Topic  

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