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 Replies: 57 / Views: 9,063 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Bob... wreck coin, hoard coin, perfectly legit-looking BOE stamped pieces... and a TON of good silver pieces in every state of preservation.
30 million words on the theoretical... not one about the coins at hand. THE WINDOW FEATURE IS REGAL.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quote:
I want to point out the absolute FACT (unless someone cares to call me a liar) that there are counterfeits of this type that do exist. Some are effectively heavy Sheffield with a copper core. Others seem to be solid and debased. Bob, I went through the examples you have in your book files with the feature and broke them down one by one after you said this the first time... you didn't comment on those pieces. Go back through this thread to see those pieces... and/or SHOW each and every piece you're talking about beyond those. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
So realeswatcher you are calling me a lair.
I choose not to respond to your challenge because I have the proof in hand and I know I am right. I can see it. I actually have over 100 Portrait 8R ccc types in my collection that did not make the book.
However, there is no convincing you because .... why? I don't know but for some reason you seem to simply oppose anything I say.
I do not have to prove ANYTHING to you and will not attempt to.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
A liar? No. Perhaps wrong about the nature of a given piece? Possibly.
Aside from that... "I know this to be true and I have proof but I won't show you" is flat-out silly.
If nothing else... what about the ones I posted from your files? Comment on my comments on them...
And if REALLY nothing else... do you think there is any evidence to legitimately suspect/suggest that ALL of these odd window examples are non-regal? More specifically, to suggest that many/all of them are early (pre-1850), remarkably exact counterfeits... when the preponderance of observed early English counterfeits (whether of 8R, BOE dollars, Bank Tokens) were either obvious base metal and/or not NEARLY that exact? That would be a serious stretch.
Edited by realeswatcher
01/04/2021 5:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
By the way... I'll clarify that I think the keyhole window ORIGINATED on regal coins.
That's not to say say the feature couldn't have been copied onto later bullion restrike(s). There clearly are a large amount of chopmarked pieces (which aren't modern numismatic fakes) which have this design element.
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Maybe some of you were watching as well - I saw a very interesting 1787 coin that appeared on ebay last week as "Colonial Mexican 1787 FM 8 Reales Coin- Carolus III- holed- engraved" but unfortunately did not win (went for $338!). The reverse is flattened due to the BOE stamp application but the windows do appear to have that keyhole look, and the coin seems to be Sheffield plate based on the pictures of the hole and some wear at the the top of the left pillar. Thought this was one of the most regal-looking CCCs I've seen in a while. A few of the letters look fat like the C in Carolus and maybe the IND - but that's all I can see without having the coin in hand. It may not prove or disprove anything but maybe could speak to the high quality of the period counterfeiting operations - would be interested to hear what people think.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I saw the same coin - I also wondered if the coin may have a debased core.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
The corrosion around the hole looks like copper oxide or chloride.
As an aside, I recently cleaned up an American colonial coin silver salt spoon that had been left in a saltbox for a few years. It is black, and no amount of silver polish will take it back to the original silver color. The silver chloride is permanent.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Hard to be TOTALLY sure between the pic quality and the seawear, but this 1788-dated Mo piece from the "1810 Wreck" appears to have the misshapen windows:  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
OK, here's an interesting piece... on ebay recently out of Australia. I inquired, weight is "normal", right around 27g:   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I saw that one as well. Did you also note the reverse. I have one with a peeling plate that resembles what I see here only much worse and the copper core is obvious. Like the one I own which was drilled exposing a copper core. No coin with a copper core is regal.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
So there's another one of those 8R cut to an approx. 16g standard (apparently African of some type) on ebay right now - the link to that thread: http://goccf.com/t/250105Got me thinking that I had never browsed through pictures of those pieces to look for examples w/these "keyhole" window castles. Those cut pieces seem to be host coins dated up to the early 1790s or so, so there's overlap with this 1785-89 observed range for the keyhole window... and I dare say we've seen enough of that type between cobs (which pop up all the time) and portraits at this point to safely assume they are legitimately contemporary clippings. From the group Heritage sold earlier in 2023, I only find one lone keyhole window example... but I see (3) in the group that the French seller offered back in 2015/2016. Pics of those (4) reverses shown below:  Edited by realeswatcher
12/04/2023 12:24 pm
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Replies: 57 / Views: 9,063 |
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Posted 01/02/2021 2:02 pm
