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Counterfeit Canadian Coins!

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Valued Member
United States
324 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2009  02:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Surprisingly not a lot."

Now that's scary. About 200,000,000 business issue toonies have been minted. If there is one counterfeit for every 100 coins, that would mean in the area of 2,000,000 counterfeits were made netting the crooks about $4,000,000 (tax free). With that kind of volume, you have to wonder if they minted any years other than 2005.

The sad reality is that there are many operations like this around the world and this has been the case for decades now. One can only imaging how much counterfeit coinage is out there...
Valued Member
dan-in-crystal-lake's Avatar
United States
493 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2009  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Counterfeiting from China is a significant problem for collectors. Well we all know enough to pay attention to red flags that crop up when we see "China" as the source of the coin, there are thousands of coins already here in North America that can easily be offered for sale by an unscrupulous seller or even an uninformed seller.

Keep you eye on this web site over the next couple of weeks as the Canadian section fleshes out on virtually all known counterfeit pieces that have originated in China that are currently in the North American market.

http://www.forgerynetwork.com/viewa...20&srchall=0
Valued Member
1945V's Avatar
Canada
386 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2009  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1945V to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dan-in-crystal-lake, thanks for the useful forgery site.

I was not surprised to see key date coins like 1921 5 and 50 cents and 1948 dollar coins on the list as potential counterfeit candidates.

I was very surprised to see the 1939 and 1949 dollar coins as counterfeit candidates. These are very common dollar coins. The real versions of these coins can be obtained in reasonable condition for only melt value plus a fair premium. Why would anyone countefeit these two commeratives with such complex details in reverse designs that you would think would be easier to spot as counterfeit?
Edited by 1945V
04/04/2009 4:18 pm
Valued Member
United States
324 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2009  01:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a good one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1990-CANADA-LOO...IT_W0QQitemZ110372771570QQihZ001QQcategoryZ3383QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A 1990 counterfeit Loon dollar dated 1990. The RRC is too large and in the wrong location. The reverse image also has some very noticeable discrepancies compared to an authentic dollar. One can only wonder how many of these were made.
Valued Member
Brissyboy's Avatar
Australia
335 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2009  02:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brissyboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the link to that one on ebay mkb, very interesting. The face is also weakly struck on the Australian counterfeit $2 of 2003. Perhaps they can't quite get a European face right so smudge it. LOL. There was an article recently on the counterfeit UK one pound coins, now there appears to be millions of pounds of them circulating over there.

Topher, can you post a pic of the one/s you have? Are they 1990 too. That guy wants $100 for his counterfeit. Pays 100 times to sell them on ebay as counterfeits than to try and pass then in circulation for $1. Go figure.
Valued Member
dan-in-crystal-lake's Avatar
United States
493 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2009  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dan-in-crystal-lake to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1945V, I think that is why this is such a significant problem. It has pushed well past the trophy coins and deep into the every day collectors area. It's a real shame that you now have to think twice about the coin you buy slightly over bullion. I know it's easier to tell with the coin in hand but if you are buying on ebay or the like, it's not as easy.

I guess it's like anything else in life. Know who you are dealing with. If the seller in NA has bought from China, think twice.
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WpgLwr's Avatar
Canada
1082 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2009  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WpgLwr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, that ebay seller is breaking the law. Counterfeit money cannot be sold; under Canadian law, it must be turned into the RCMP.
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Topher's Avatar
Canada
965 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2009  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Topher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Brissyboy,

I'll have to borrow the wife's camera. Hopefully I can get to it this week considering we have a long weekend coming up. Oh, and the counterfeit Toonies are all dated 2005. (Or at least all of the ones I've seen are.)
Edited by Topher
04/05/2009 7:21 pm
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MrCanada's Avatar
Canada
650 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2009  02:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MrCanada to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have the same loon he does, same date, identical,there is a story that I will have to get from the guy who gave it to me . I think he said it originated out west, and there was a story with it, I'll share after I check it out.
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wd1040's Avatar
United States
3098 Posts
 Posted 04/06/2009  02:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wd1040 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What's so rare about the 1990 loonie?
New Member
kniceone's Avatar
Canada
42 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kniceone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a 2004 counterfeit toonie dated 2004. It is from the Quebec operation that was producing counterfeit toonies. And yes "WpgLwr" you are correct - I can't "sell" or pass off this toonie to anyone or I could be charged with a criminal offense. So what does one do with a counterfeit coin? I have consulted with two top coin auctioneers here in Canada and they won't touch it.
Valued Member
United States
324 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2009  11:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
kniceone, are you able to post images of the 2004 counterfeit toonie? Note that this is the first I have heard of it...
Valued Member
Brissyboy's Avatar
Australia
335 Posts
 Posted 04/08/2009  09:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brissyboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
kniceone, I too would love to see an image. I was in Canada in 2004 and 2006 and brought home what change I could spare for my collection.

With the counterfeit Aussie $2, it is illegal to use it as currency but is seems one can keep it as a counterfeit for their own collection or possibly give it to another for their collection. I know some here have sold them privately to other collectors as counterfeits. Of course people don't broadcast they have them much but we do discuss them on the Aussie forum.
Valued Member
United States
324 Posts
 Posted 04/10/2009  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More on counterfeiting:


Royal Mint is warned that one in 20 £1 coins is fake

BBC study finds fake rate is twice as high as first thought

By Sean O'Grady, Economics editor

Thursday, 9 April 2009

The pound in your pocket may be worth even less than you thought. According to an investigation by the BBC, as many as one in 20 £1 coins may be a forgery - double The Royal Mint's estimate.

Willings, a company that specialises in detecting counterfeit coins for the banks and vending-machine industry, said that as many as 73 million may be circulating. The recession provides an additional incentive for people to turn to less legitimate methods of making money and the scale of forgery appears to be rising. In the last quarter of 2008, The Royal Mint removed 270,000 fake pound coins from circulation, compared with 97,000 for the whole of 2007. The Royal Mint said: "We are concerned at the apparent upward trend."

A spokesman for Willings said: "We would estimate that as many as 5 per cent of coins we test are fakes. We've been collating them for the past four months or so, and already have a collection of several hundred.

"We can manage a 50 to 60 per cent detection rate while the machines being used by The Royal Mint can only pick up around 30 to 40 per cent."

The former Queen's Assay Master Robert Matthews added: "The Mint is really trying to play down the problem and keep it as low-key as possible. They've not produced any publicity material for banks to tell us how to differentiate between real and fake coins. They don't want to undermine public confidence in the coins - you might get people refusing to take them."

A further challenge to the pound comes from the Swaziland lilangeni coin, worth about 14p and extremely similar to the British coin. While Royal Mint is making little comment, there is an outside chance that the authorities will be forced to withdraw the existing coins and replace them with a design that is harder to copy.
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MrCanada's Avatar
Canada
650 Posts
 Posted 04/10/2009  04:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MrCanada to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I contacted the guy with the fake 1990 Loon, he had the same story I did. Some machinist produced a bunch and got caught. He got time for counterfeiting,and I think he produced maybe 30,000.
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