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Replies: 34 / Views: 3,855 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts |
I just got my new microscope set up and ive been testing out all the settings and while doing so I was looking at some older George VI cents and noticed that the date for this 1939 is a lot thicker than what the date should be. At first I thought circulation wear but you can see that the devices are the same height for both coins, and the devices themselves are actually fairly thick and the buds are also different sizes. I am thinking maybe die wear, but not 100% sure. Coin in Question.  Normal 1939 date.  Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Looks pretty much the same to me. Nice photos,what are you using? John1 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
They appear the same to me as well.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9864 Posts |
 Top coin is more worn
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1186 Posts |
Quote: Nice photos,what are you using? Thank you John1, I am using a 38MP 2K Industrial Microscope camera with a 100x Lens and LED ring light. The copy stand itself I made with 3D printed parts. I can do close ups and Full coin photos. My new setup.   And here is a side by side of the date all in 1 photo just to show the thickness difference of the top date compared to the bottom so you's can see what I am seeing more clearly. 
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2784 Posts |
wow john excellent great find. here is and image to show you what you have. its a wide date nice find. I have grid complete now. this will make things a lot easier. here is your image. john I was trying. to hand hold to take this photo. 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
So in 1939 there was over 20 million cents produced and say a die last 200,000 strikes, you need around 100 pair of dies, the RCM is not creating exact copies or ms 65 of each coin, more like ms 63 and below. Even if this is a wide 9 variety, how many collectors care, I hope I'm not being too harsh, but your photo skills are terrific !
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1186 Posts |
Quote: I hope I'm not being too harsh, but your photo skills are terrific ! John100, thank you and you weren't being harsh at all so no worries, your information was exactly what I was looking for. Like I said earlier, I was just messing around with my new setup and I never noticed the differences for this 1939 before until now and I was curious if it was something regarding the dies being different or just simple circulation wear. I've never heard of a "wide 9" variety before, but that is probably due to exactly like you said, how many collectors actually care as I would assume it would be classified as a minor variety.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Would you mind telling us what that scope cost?  John1 
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1186 Posts |
Quote: Would you mind telling us what that scope cost? John1, the camera, lens and LED ring light with all the power adapters, HDMI Cable and the Remote control cost me $160.00 Canadian with free Shipping included! (no border fees and got handed over to Canada post as expedited with tracking). I originally gave myself a $300.00 CAD budget to get a decent camera and copy stand, but looking at copy stands online pretty much took up my entire budget so I designed my own copy stand and purchased the steel rods, bearings and a Stepper Rod for $70.00 CAD and 3D Printed the plastic parts and the Arm that holds the camera and I managed to turn my original $300.00 budget into a $250.00 budget. The camera itself I am very pleased with as it has HDMI that takes photos on a memory card at 2K resolution hooked up to an external monitor and USB capabilities (what the pics for this post were taken with) at 1080P HD on my Macbook. Overall best purchase I've made and shows doubled dies beautifully, I can also do full coin photos that are very similar to true views with extreme zooming to pick at any detail you see on a coin.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2784 Posts |
john so this is a big 9 small 9. wide date narrow date. I sure would like to see the full obverses of these coins.
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Thanks for telling us the price. Great set up and great photos. John1 
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5586 Posts |
I really see no difference between the two. The difference that I see on the graph paper is the lighting/outline of the digits themselves. I see no wide or thick 9's. I would imagine that all the working dies were struck from the same hub, so there can be no differences in size or spacing. I don't know if there was a reason for them to handpunch the last digit into the working dies like they did for some Vicky large cents. If that were so, then there would be many more differences in spacings or vertical placement of the 9.
Edited by okiecoiner 07/02/2020 1:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1186 Posts |
Okiecoiner, I'm not big on using graphs and all that, but there really is a difference in size even if it is only minor. Here is a photo of both the "Thick 9" and "Thin 9"  I really didn't want to have to mark up these photos like this but just for better understanding of what I am seeing you can clearly see a difference in the following photos.    The over all size of the "Thick 9" is also bigger, all the photos were taken from the exact same distance. If those aren't convincing enough you should see the "thick 3" compared to the "thin 3", there is also a good spacing difference between each digit.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Can you show the whole obverse and reverse? Are they of similar grades? Remember that the numbers have angled edges, the more the coin wears, the fatter they get...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
If you are looking for different 9, look at the 1969 large date nine, there is a huge or different nine used so I guess the huge price this coin gets at auctions. This could be just natural die wear, the way different pressman polished a die or set the pressure. Although I have no love for the 1969 large date, and a reasonable explanation for it's creation, the market talks. My other guess is if you look minutely at any regular circulating coin you will find all kinds of minor variety, if you can't notice a defect or difference naturally it's hard to have a big following.
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Replies: 34 / Views: 3,855 |