How Can I Tell The Difference Between The DD And The Doubled Working Hub?

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coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/07/2020 2:36 pm How can I tell the difference between the DD and the Doubled Working Hub on a coin? Interesting question. But the ones who determine this is the attributers. Why them and not the collectors? They notice them when they have a lot of the same doubling over and over on the same areas. Years ago, you can figure out that the doubling was on dies had mintmarks on them, but the same doubling was present on several of the examples submitted. The mintmark locations would be in different areas, but the doubled die would be the same. When look at John Wexler's site, you will probably see him figure this out more often. Years ago I noticed on the 1968 cents there were a lot of the same doubling on several different dies. Here are a few examples: http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=lds Even Coppercoins noticed this: Quote: 1968D-1DO-003 CLASS 2 CONECA: unknown \| Crawford: unknownWexler: unknown \| FS#: unlisted. A medium spread shows on the motto, and slightly on the date. NOTE: There are a few similar dies that look almost exact. Check mintmark positioning and markers to verify which die you have. But they didn't realize the issue yet and may still don't know it. http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds And on and on. They noted the different mintmark locations, but didn't realize there was the thread behind this. That they are all from the same master die, or from the same working hubs. I mentioned my doubts to John Wexler and he agreed. What was the clue on these. Finding so many from all three mints with the same doubling. When you see the same doubling over and over and they are easy to find, it should wave red flags. But it is easy when there are many, but less often are the doubled master hubs. It takes looking at how many are being attributed to realize something is going on. Doubled dies are not to be in large volume. Quote: 1968-P,D,S 1¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working HubDescription: A very slight CW spread shows on the LIBE of LIBERTY. A spread towards the rim shows on IGWT.Die Markers: The obverse and reverse die markers will vary with each affected working die.Submitted By: Various individuals.Cross References: None knownComments: Numerous working dies for all three Mints were created with this doubled working hub including S-Mint proof dies. Here is another good read about this subject from Wexler's site. You can follow the link and read it. http://doubleddie.com/58222.html A long read but contains a lot of information. So I hope this answers your question CoinHunter17. Report this Post to the Staff

CoinHunter17 Pillar of the Community United States 1008 Posts	Posted 07/07/2020 3:23 pm Wow, this is incredible. Who knew I was going to be the headline for coop's latest informational post? This is yet another great post. Thanks a bunch coop. Report this Post to the Staff
SilverCents Pillar of the Community United States 3281 Posts	Posted 07/07/2020 5:17 pm Very interesting topic, and extremely informative. Thank you Coop for answering CH17's question. Makes a lot of sense. Report this Post to the Staff
fortcollins Pillar of the Community United States 3664 Posts	Posted 07/07/2020 7:30 pm @coop, Excellent and informative discussion, as usual. Thank you! Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/08/2020 12:01 am Cents: 1950 (P, D, S) 1¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: A close spread towards the center shows on the E in WE. 1960 (P,D)1¢ WWHO-001 Small Date Doubled Working Hub Description: A spread towards the rim shows on the lower part of the letters of IGWT. 1961 (P,D) 1¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: A spread towards the center shows on the letters of LIBERTY. 1961 (P,D) 1¢ WWHO-002 Doubled Working Hub Description: A spread towards the center shows on the letters of IGWT decreasing in spread from left to right. 1961 (P,D) 1¢ WWHO-003 Doubled Working Hub Description: Strong extra thickness shows on the date, LIBERTY, and IGWT. 1962 1¢ Pr WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: A spread towards the rim shows on the date. 1962 (P,D) 1¢ Pr WWHO-002 Doubled Working Hub Description: A spread towards the rim shows on the date and TRUST. 1962 (P,D) 1¢ Pr WWHO-003 Doubled Working Hub Description: A CW spread from a pivot at about 9:00 shows on the date and TRUST. 1962 (P,D) 1¢ WWHO-004 Doubled Working Hub Description: Doubling shows on the inside of the 2 in the date.. 1968-(P,D,S) 1¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: A very slight CW spread shows on the LIBE of LIBERTY. A spread towards the rim shows on IGWT. 1972 (P,D,S) 1¢ WDDO-001 "Best Of" Variety Description: An extremely strong Class I CW spread shows on the letters of LIBERTY, IGWT, the front of the bust, and the date. 1983 1¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: Doubling shows on the upper LI in LIBERTY. 1989 1¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: A spread towards the center shows on the date, the bottom of the front of the bust, the hair details at the top of the head, and slightly on IGWT. 2017-P 1¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: Moderate extra thickness shows on the letters of LIBERTY with the upper left of the Y considerably thicker than the upper right. 2017-P 1¢ WWHO-002 Doubled Working Hub Description: Moderate extra thickness shows on the letters of LIBERTY with the upper left of the Y considerably thicker than the upper right. This aspect is stronger on WHO-002 than it is on WWHO-001. 2019 1¢ WMDO-001 Doubled Master Die Description: Significant extra thickness shows on the 9 in the date. Report this Post to the Staff
sheldius Pillar of the Community United States 1204 Posts	Posted 07/08/2020 01:52 am Thanks for a great post Coop. At least I only have to deal with one in the wheat cents. Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/08/2020 02:01 am Nickels: 1925-P,D,S 5¢ WMDO-001 Doubled Master Die Description: Doubling shows on the left side of the ribbon and on the left side of the lower braid. 1947-DMO WDMO-001-P-D-S Distorted Hub Doubling Description: Class II: A spread toward the center shows on IN GOD WE TRUST. 1982-S WWHR-001 Proof Working hub doubling reverse Description: Class II, Distorted Hub Doubling Dimes: 1946-P,D,S 10¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: A spread towards the center shows on the date, the designer's initials, and slightly on IGWT. 1955 10¢ WMDO-001 Master Die Doubling Description: A CCW spread from a pivot at about 3:00 shows on LIBERTY, IGWT, and the lips. 1968 10¢ WMDO-001 Master Die Doubling Description: A spread towards the center shows on the LIB of LIBERTY and IGWT. Quarters: 1930 25¢ WMDR-001 Master Die Doubling Description: A close Class II spread towards the center shows on some of the letters of QUARTER DOLLAR. The three stars under the eagle show tripled left points. 1944 25¢ (P,D,S) WMDO-001 Master Die Doubling Description: A strong spread to the north shows on the lower ear, the underside of the nose, and the E in WE. 1949 (P,D,S) 25¢ WMDO-001 Master Die Doubling Description: A spread towards the center shows on IN, the TR in TRUST, and the BER in LIBERTY. 1951,2,3,4 (P,D,S) 25¢ WMHO-001 Master Hub Doubling Description: A moderate CW spread from a pivot at about 3:00 shows on IGWT. Comments: Because the master hub is designed to be used over a period of several years, this one was used during the period from 1951 through 1954. Consequently all Washington quarters during that period of time will show this doubling. Differences in the appearance of the doubling will be due to wear on the working hubs, wear on the working dies, and wear on the coins themselves. 1968,9,70,1,2,3,7 (P,D,S) 25¢ WMHR-001 Master Hub Doubling Description: A spread towards the center shows on QUARTER DOLLAR and the lower wreath with all doubling decreasing in spread from left to right. Comments: Because this was a master hub it was intended to be used over a period of several years. Working dies with the exact same doubling are known to exist for the years 1968 through 1974 from all three Mints including proof coins. Differences in the appearance of the doubling will result from master hub wear, master die wear, working hub wear, working die wear, as well as coin wear. A second similar doubled master hub exists for this time period with the main difference being the leave directly to the left of the arrowheads. On the second doubled master hub that leave is rounded at the top. 1982 (P,D,S) 25¢ WMDO-001 Master Die Doubling Description: A spread towards the center along with significant extra thickness shows on IGWT and slightly on the date. Half Dollars: 1948 (P,D) 50¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: A close spread SE shows on the date while a close spread towards the center shows on IGWT and LIBERTY. 1960 50¢ Pr WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: A close spread towards the center shows on LIBERTY. 1964 50¢ Pr WMDO-001 Doubled Master Die 1964 50¢ WMDO-002 Doubled Master Die 1964 50¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub 1964 50¢ WWHO-002 Doubled Working Hub 1964 50¢ WWHO-003 Doubled Working Hub Since WMDO-001 is only on P-Mint proof coins, there are no D-Mint examples of WMDO-001 and the D-Mint listings begin with WMDO-002. 1964-D 50¢ WMDO-002 Doubled Master Die 1964-D 50¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub 1964-D 50¢ WWHO-002 Doubled Working Hub 1965 50¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub 1965 50¢ WWHR-001 Doubled Working Hub 1966 50¢ WWHO-001 Doubled Working Hub Description: Strong doubling shows on the profile including the neck, chin, lips, nostril, eye, and the locks of hair at the top of the head near the B in LIBERTY. Doubling also shows on the lower back of the ear and the designer's initials. A close spread shows on IGWT. Comments: While CONECA has noted the possibility of a doubled working hub for the numerous 1966 50¢ doubled profile varieties, they still list all of these as unique working dies. 1966 50¢ WWHO-002 Doubled Working Hub Description: Strong doubling shows on back of the neck and head as well as on the lower profile including the neck, chin, and lips. Doubling also shows on the back of the ear, the hair details to the right of the upper ear, and the designer's initials. A close spread shows on IGWT. Comments: The quickest way to spot the difference between WWHO-001 and WWHO-002 is the hair details just to the right of the upper ear. On WWHO-001 these hair details show barely any doubling, but on WWHO-002 the doubling of these hair details is strong. 1966 50¢ WWHO-003 Doubled Working Hub Description: Very close tripling spread towards the center shows on the date, IGWT, and the Y of LIBERTY. Edited by coop 07/08/2020 4:33 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Eyez Pillar of the Community United States 584 Posts	Posted 07/08/2020 6:10 pm @ Coop always up and beyond in info love it thx coop. Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/08/2020 7:22 pm After 9/10s done, the thought came to me: Why not put a link with the sites for each listing. But I've save the material, and someday may add that to this thread. (That's what happens when you have a brain that figures out how to make something more work. LOL Edited by coop 07/08/2020 7:22 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Eyez Pillar of the Community United States 584 Posts	Posted 07/10/2020 12:04 pm @coop the only prob with that is mine will overthink lol. Report this Post to the Staff
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