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Criteria For G-6 Grade Lincoln Cent

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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2008  2:25 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi everyone

Second grade point G-6

I thought it would be interesting to run a series of threads on grading criteria and what you may use to help determine the grades of circulated Lincoln cents , the object is to describe as close as possible how you would determine a grade of G-6 , pictures are welcome as illustrations along with how you arrived at the grade of G-6 .

this will be a continuing series of posts with threads for all grade points from G-4 to AU-58 ,, Please keep each thread pure to the topic !

let the fun begin ! and please don't be shy ! the more objective opinions that we get per thread the better the overall picture of each grade point will be .
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2008  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is going to be tough just going up 2 points. I grade my raw Lincolns either G4 as "Good" or VG8 as "Very Good". So this is a best guess at G6.

Obv.: All letters clear and readable, Rims distinct, Some hair detail may be visible.

Rev.: Some upper wheat show on well struck coins, Rims distinct.
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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/18/2008  02:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi bherring1964


I have seen many threads where the distinction was made and a grade of G-6 given on a coin , the point of this series of threads is to find out how that grade was reached .

and also because the grading guides do not give a specific criteria for G-6 .

making this grade an application and judgement grade, one which requires a very good understanding of the technical aspects of the grades of G-4 and VG-8 to achieve .

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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 11/18/2008  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G-6: All of the critera for G-4 are met. In addition, the color must be even and eye appeal nice for the grade. A hint of a line or two should be seen in the wheatheads, not completely worn smooth (which is acceptable in G-4). The wheat grains should be fairly complete, worn, but the outlines fully present. No rim dings or other outstanding blemishes that may occassionally slide on the G-4 grade.
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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/19/2008  2:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Baseline G-6

Obverse bust worn flat ,with clear seperation between jaw ,neck and jacket ,bowtie very weak but decernable on jacket collar some ear detail still visable slightly more hair details than a G-4 , lettering just beginning to meet the rim ,rim will be full with slight weakness but clearly visable around entire coin , date and motto clear easily read but well worn .

reverse wheat heads worn flat slight detail decernable in stalks ,lettering just beginning to contact rim ,rim full around entire coin with slight weakness in some places , lettering well worn with all letters easily readable .

coin may have numerous dings scratches and scrapes finger prints and other remnants of extended use ,color brown or dark brown or a mixture of both .

Criteria-For-G-6-Grade-Lincoln-Cent

Criteria-For-G-6-Grade-Lincoln-Cent
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 11/19/2008  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Damage notwithstanding, I would net grade that coin to G6 also.

The Obverse could go VG8 while the Reverse looks G4.
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 11/19/2008  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, let's debate. LOL No way I'd give that coin a G-6 Metalman. There's far too many hits and the color is not even. After looking around ebay, this is a coin I'd grade a G-6:

Criteria-For-G-6-Grade-Lincoln-Cent
Criteria-For-G-6-Grade-Lincoln-Cent
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Edited by BadThad
11/19/2008 8:34 pm
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 Posted 11/19/2008  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There's far too many hits ....


Yes - Metalman's coin is damaged. Those hits look like they came from a slot head screwdriver!

I still his coin could go G6. Thad's coin has a great obverse for G6. Not that's a VG8 because the details aren't there but it's a "choice" Good. I guess that's what G6 is!

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 Posted 11/19/2008  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yea, my example is nearly VG...but...there's only hints of lines lines in the wheatheads. Even though the picture is crappy, I think there's 5-10% of the lines showing. I don't call it VG until I can see about 30-50% of lines. They don't have to be full lines, but I gotta see some lines or it's definately not VG IMO.
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Edited by BadThad
11/19/2008 10:13 pm
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 Posted 11/19/2008  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a side by side. My choice for G4 is on the left and G6 on the right:

Criteria-For-G-6-Grade-Lincoln-Cent
Criteria-For-G-6-Grade-Lincoln-Cent
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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/20/2008  02:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Net grading -V- technical details .

Thad can you explain net grading based on the details of the coin .

keep in mind that nowhere in any grading standard guide will you find net grading .

they are a detail oriented publication .

and most do not even mention surface color until EF-40.





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 Posted 11/20/2008  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Net grading -V- technical details .

Thad can you explain net grading based on the details of the coin .

keep in mind that nowhere in any grading standard guide will you find net grading .

they are a detail oriented publication .

and most do not even mention surface color until EF-40.


I'm not sure I fully understand your question.

I thought I spelled out my opinion already. The G grade Lincoln has a flattened portrait. Most of the details are obliterated. The wheat tips are smooth, sometimes there's a trace of a line or two. For me, those are the two main criteria. IMO, those are the absolute technical indicators. As we've already discussed, other factors come into play, but they don't effect the grade nearly as much as the main technical indicators.

A coin that exhibts those main two technical features must grade G. I have yet to see a TPG Lincoln with those features and a grade higher than G.

The examples I've shown above both have those main technical indicators for a G grade. Although the G-6 coin is definately sharper, but it still meets the G criteria. However, it's defintately a more pleasing coin than the G-4.
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 Posted 11/20/2008  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
what I'm looking for is a value to the distractions .

if the details of the coin grade G-6 how much is taken away by the color , by each nick and ding that allows a final net grade .



you also said let have a discussion .but I was at work and the discussion was carried out without me .

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 Posted 11/20/2008  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
what I'm looking for is a value to the distractions .

if the details of the coin grade G-6 how much is taken away by the color , by each nick and ding that allows a final net grade .



you also said let have a discussion .but I was at work and the discussion was carried out without me .


I don't know that you can necessarily assign a "value" to the distractions at this grade. For me the eye appeal is more more important than anything else at the G level. The technical merits get the coin there and then the distractions have to be looked at overall.

Let's use the example you posted above:

The coin meets the G technical criteria. However, the surface color is very uneven and there's excessive hits. I'd also down grade it due to the reverse UNITED STATES OF AMERICA being so weak/worn, it's poor even by the G standard. I would actually net grade that coin to AG-3 due to these reasons.

HEHEHEHE...hey, this is fun! I wish more people would join in. I'm looking foward to VG-MS! Thanks for doing this Metalman.
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 Posted 11/20/2008  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A coin that exhibts those main two technical features must grade G. I have yet to see a TPG Lincoln with those features and a grade higher than G.


I agree with the 2nd sentence but not the 1st. A coin can have excessive wear in other areas, particularly a heavily worn coin, and not make a G4 grade.

There could be a couple faint wheat lines and a flattened portrait with minimal details but the rims are worn down into all the lettering and the coin is really a AG3.

It would NOT grade higher than G as you stated. That much wear precludes a grade higher than Good.
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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/20/2008  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thad I was not talking about a money value , but when a coin is net graded each distraction should have a value if none can be applied in a consistent way then why grade coins at all .

That is my problem with net grading , the arbitrary nature of the practice is a problem and I think is one of the reasons why there is so much variation in grade from person to the next .

By the way , both of your coins technically grade G-4 .

I have hundreds of very nice even colored G-6 Lincoln cents , you don't seriously think I chose this one at random do you ?

I voiced my opinion before about a coin being net graded below the details grade , it just makes no sense if it can happen at this level then it surely must happen at all levels including MS .

grade and appeal do not always come together , this coin I posted does not appeal to me and I would not buy it , but technically its still a G-6 1920 LWC just an ugly one .





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