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Criteria For VG-10 Grade Lincoln Cent

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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/26/2008  02:14 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi everyone

Fourth grade point VG-10

I thought it would be interesting to run a series of threads on grading criteria and what you may use to help determine the grades of circulated Lincoln cents , the object is to describe as close as possible how you would determine a grade of VG-10 , pictures are welcome as illustrations along with how you arrived at the grade of VG-10.

this will be a continuing series of posts with threads for all grade points from G-4 to AU-58 ,, Please keep each thread pure to the topic !
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 11/26/2008  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Criteria-For-VG-10-Grade-Lincoln-Cent

Criteria-For-VG-10-Grade-Lincoln-Cent

I'll stop back later with my VG10 comments. I couldn't resist posting this beautiful VG10 now though!
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vermontensium's Avatar
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 Posted 11/26/2008  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 11/26/2008  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VG10 is the lowest grade I enjoy collecting. The pics above are a 1909-S VDB that was graded by NGC at VG10. I wouldn't mind having it but it's not mine!

Obverse: All lettering should be sharp and clear, ear and bow tie visible, hair has some detail, rims solid.

Reverse: Upper lines of wheat stalks must be 50% present, kernals in the lower wheat wheat stalks are flat but visible, rims solid.
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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/27/2008  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
bherring1964

do you believe that the coin you pictured is a VG-10 based on the details ? or is it because NGC graded it as a VG-10 ?

I ask because the obverse is weak for a VG-10 and really matches much closer to a G-6 borderline VG-8.

The reverse is stong enough for an F-12 ,but then that would mean the coin was given the VG-10 grade based on the reverse .

Do you think maybe this coin was net graded on the up scale due to the strong reverse ?

I only ask because when you look to the guides which are put out to the collecting community they detail a coin that matches the grade on both obverse and reverse they do not allow for this type of grading when one suface is stronger than the other and that makes me wonder what they do and how the thought process works to come to the slabbed grade .

I believe this coin was net graded and the difference between the two sides was split to reach the VG-10 grade .

If that is the case would it be the same for a non key Issue ?

as a visual and also in regards to NGC and its consistency compare these pictures (borrowed ) .

I think you will immediately see the difference in the details of the two coins even though NGC made no distiction between the two .


Criteria-For-VG-10-Grade-Lincoln-Cent

Criteria-For-VG-10-Grade-Lincoln-Cent
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 11/27/2008  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Do you believe that the coin you pictured is a VG-10 based on the details? Or is it because NGC graded it as a VG-10?


I believe the coin is VG10. My grade would simply be VG though, because I don't assign numbers to my own grades.


Quote:
I ask because the obverse is weak for a VG-10 and really matches much closer to a G-6 borderline VG-8.


To me the obverse might only be VG8 but the srong reverse gives it the bump to VG10.

From PCGS; VG-8/10 coins will have little detail visible on the head, with a few hair curls and possibly part of the ear noted. The coat will show the deepest folds of the lower part, with the upper area worn flat.

Clearly this '09-S VDB is VG.


Quote:
Do you think maybe this coin was net graded on the up scale due to the strong reverse ?


No - this coin makes VG on both surfaces with the reverse being stronger than the obverse.


Quote:
I believe this coin was net graded and the difference between the two sides was split to reach the VG-10 grade .


You may be correct. A VG8 obverse and a F12 reverse might have yielded the VG10 grade.


Quote:
If that is the case would it be the same for a non key Issue ?


This coin is correctly graded at VG10. I believe you're refering to "Market Grading" of key date coins and here I don't think that's the case.


Quote:
As a visual and also in regards to NGC and its consistency compare these pictures (borrowed).


That '14-D should have graded Fine unless the reverse is very heavily worn. The obverse detail exceeds the established grading criteria for F12.

These are all excellent questions and I appreciate the opportunity to dicuss this. Happy Thanksgiving!



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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/27/2008  10:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that the coin I posted is closer to a VG-10 than the 09, If the ear has not begun to pop out at VG-10 then what happens when you move to the fine grades and even more of the ear needs to be seen to reach that grade ?

The bow tie should be clearly seen and the inside end of it should begin to take on dimension at VG-10 because at F-12 it should be distinct as should the entire outline of the ear . but we can get into this conversation when we post to the f-12 thread.

for now here is my Idea of a VG-10

Obverse

Face cheek and jaw are worn nearly smooth some detail can be seen in the hair approaching the forehead , slight definition can be seen in the ear mainly at the lobe , neck and jawline are starting to define,collar line beginning to show a little more definition in the jacket , all lettering of liberty and date as well as the motto are bold , rim is full .

surfaces may have several nicks and dings visible , color will be brown ,it may vary in tone with lighter and darker areas .

Reverse wheat heads beginning to show some lines at the top but may still be slightly blended with only a few showing separation , the wheat stalks will show most of kernels even though they are worn flat all lettering will be present and bold , rim will be full .

surfaces may show several nicks and or dings color will be brown but may have varying lighter and darker areas .

Criteria-For-VG-10-Grade-Lincoln-Cent

Criteria-For-VG-10-Grade-Lincoln-Cent

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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 11/27/2008  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Metalman you make some good points. You are a more conservative grader than I am for sure. I look at any VG coin as very well worn.

On a Lincoln Cent, my feeling is F12 for what you describe as VG10. I know these are very close grades but there is a big distinction between VG and F, it's just that the distinction isn't huge until you jump from VG8 to F15.

I picked a couple more images of VG10 coins from major TPG to post. I feel these coins are correctly graded:

First ANACS:
Criteria-For-VG-10-Grade-Lincoln-Cent

Second PCGS:
Criteria-For-VG-10-Grade-Lincoln-Cent

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Edited by BH1964
11/27/2008 11:46 pm
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Metalman's Avatar
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 Posted 11/29/2008  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The PCGS coin you posted looks close to VG-10 the anacs coin is very liberally graded IMO.

Just taking the pictures which have been posted in this thread from the TPG's do they look consistent ?

The New ANA standards are liberal , and PCGS guide is so vague just about any coin can be graded VG ,,I mean really the face is worn smooth and the fields show several marks ?

does the face include the ear ? the neck and bowtie ? the jacket details ? the hair and to what degree ?

the face is worn smooth at AG-3 and G-4 and G-6 and VG-8 with no defining details where do you mark the coin for 2 point jumps in grade ?

The reverse VG-10 a few wheat lines are visable ? what is a few ? their VG-8 says that a few wheat lines may be visable but they don't have to be . so what do you get for a 2 point jump ?



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 Posted 11/29/2008  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that grading standards have gotten more liberal over the years. I think that's why many people buy older slabs and re-submit knowing they have a good chance for an upgrade. This is very common on MS coins but it applies to lower grades as well.

I do like PCGS' Coin Grading Guide but have used Photograde and ANA guidelines as well. Here's a quote from PCGS on VG Lincoln Cents:

Quote:
VG-8/10 coins will have little detail visible on the head, with a few hair curls and possibly part of the ear noted. The coat will show the deepest folds in the lower part, with the upper area worn flat. The rim should be strong on both sides. The wheat stalks will have some lines, though little separation is seen. Memorial reverse coins are almost never seen in Very Good and below grades.
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