| Author |
Replies: 26 / Views: 3,304 |
|
New Member
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Me and my family own together 14 kilos of 24ct gold in the form of gold bars.
I've done a little research and found out that gold sell better in small amounts (e.g per ounce) in stead of kilo bars, as more people can afford to build there gold collection/saving in small stages.
Getting to the point! I have an idea of melting it all down and producing gold coins. On it with a graphic logo and maybe the family name. I just want to get as much info on making/production of coins and what tools and machinery is need and where to buy (I'm from the UK). I have a very large basement and was planning on setting up down there.
Please get back to me asap, look forward to hearing your replies.
|
|
|
|
Valued Member
United States
135 Posts |
Melting point of gold is 1337.33K, 1064.18C, 1947.52F. Check your insurance before setting up an industry in your basement. A change in form, from bars to coins, will require a re-assay of the gold. Simply stamping .9999 fine on your coins doesn't make them .9999 fine to the buyer.
Edited by FreezerBurn 11/27/2008 1:41 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
869 Posts |
 The cost of having it reassayed and the equipment would be vary costly. Use that money to buy even more gold or some platnum it is easyer to hold and trade. Buy it now while it's down a little. Plus people still might hesatate to purchase strange looking gold coins thinking they are fakes. To risky
|
|
New Member
 United Kingdom
7 Posts |
I'm aware of the re-assaying, there's a validation exchange in Birmingham that validates change in form by stamping .999 and also providing certificate. I'm also aware that it might be quite heavy on the pocket in setting up but I still believe I can make something of this and prepared to go all the way.
Where would I buy the machinery from and is there any info or courses I can go on. Thank You for Your comments.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
135 Posts |
If someone will take you on you could apprentice in a foundry or steel mill to learn molten metal technique. Die making can also be learned via apprenticeship. Equipment is available; ask someone who makes their own jewerly about furnaces. Stamping/coining presses are out there too. You'd just have to GOOGLE what you need.
|
|
New Member
 United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Been googling like crazy mate, keep coming up with the same old links. There's not that much info when it comes to producing coins. but ill stay on it, going to find out where the local mills are in my area to see if they can help. Ill post my finding as I go along, if there is anything you may think I need to know please post it. Thank you again for your help.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
860 Posts |
Unless it is just the beginning of a endeavor that you would be continuing, I would suggest looking for a Private coin/medal mint on the search engines. Several of the private companies might be able to arrange a swap of the kilo bars for planchets if they were striking them also.I believe Popejoy is such a private mint company in Europe. If I wanted to set up a shop, I would go to China and visit the small minters there as they seem to be simply produced with old equipment. Also I seem to remember one ebay seller that made his own rounds a while back. Jim
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
860 Posts |
After I posted the above,I forgot to add, Get a copy of Charles Larson's book "Numismatic Forgery". The title is a little misleading as it is a guidebook to what you wish to do (except for the assaying part. He shows how he made dies and struck his own coins. For your purpose, very necessary, I found it most intriguing.
Jim
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
16816 Posts |
I don't think the economies of scale will work for you; 14 kilos of gold may sound like a lot, but that's only 450 one ounce coins. I'm not sure whatever profits you'd make from the sale would justify the cost of the equipment you'd need. Another problem with making coin blanks out of any metal (especially gold) isn't in smelting and refining the metal; that's already been done for you. The problem is in the wastage: you won't be able to get 450 actual coins out of your 450 coin's worth of gold. To make the blank for a coin, you need to take your block, bar or ingot of metal and roll it flat enough to suit your purposes (to whatever thickness you want your "coins" to be). Then you get a humongous punch (it needs to be some kind of pneumatic or other high-pressure device) to punch holes in your sheet of metal; the holes punched out will become the blanks for your coins. The wastage is in the strip of metal that's now full of holes. This strip is known as "scissel" and is now basically scrap metal. You would need to have some kind of remelting system if you wanted to recycle this scissel into more coins, but even then, you'd wind up with a little bit of metal you simply couldn't use. Personally, I think it's far easier to take your ingots to a jeweller or metal trader and "swap" them for some pre-made one ounce blank gold rounds you can strike your own "coins" on. That way, the only bits you have to worry about are the die preparation and the coin press itself. Minting your own medals and "coins" can be an interesting and rewarding aspect of this hobby. I have a friend in one of my coin clubs whose main interest in in cutting dies and striking medals. Many of the medals produced for the club are his work.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
New Member
 United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Reply to Jim & sap I don't think I was very clear in my earlier posts, the gold we have at the moment will be used as a trial to something greater. It would be a waste to spend thousands on equipment just to use it once. Ill use the 14kilos and hopefully produce some quality coins out of them, if my family are happy with the end result they will fund a potential minting business as long as its profitable :-) Visiting a small minters would be an excellent idea, just need to find one willing to show me around and possibly tutor me. Also ordered the Charles Larson Book from Amazon by the way should be a good read thanks Jim. The reason I got this idea into my head is that I had a few krugerrands of my own which I recently sold and made a nice profit on them. I don't know what it is about krugers but they are very good sellers as long as you get them for the right price, and they're not even pure gold . I think people pay for the historical and collectable value as well as the actual gold value. Do you think minting your own coins is a highly profitable business if done well? Thanks for the comments keep 'em coming, every little helps P.S Check this out http://translate.google.com/transla...&sl=de&tl=en hehe Also check this out: http://www.antiquanova.com/custom.htm
Edited by poisonivy0 11/28/2008 07:08 am
|
|
Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
I would say.....DON'T DO IT. You can go to several major companies like Kitco.com and they will trade you for Eagles, Maples, K-rands, etc. Sure you will take a loss on their kilo buy prices vs. their sell prices on 1oz gold coins but I bet if you figure out the loss it will be much less than to do what you are thinking of doing.  Anyway, that's what I'd do if I wanted it in smaller incriments. It eliminates the assay problems and all the work involved for a 1 time making your own coins deal. Also, then you'll have all the machinery left over when done.  Just my honest opinion.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:
Do you think minting your own coins is a highly profitable business if done well?
In reality I'd say your wasting your time and money. The coin market is based on what coins are noted in some document such as the Red Book or the many other books out there on coins. Private minted coins don't really go over to well. I go to many coin shows and such privately minted coins just sit there. Not many people want to take a chance on something that may never be worth anything. And then too so many people would just not trust the authenticity of them being Gold. Quote: If I wanted to set up a shop, I would go to China and visit the small minters there as they seem to be simply produced with old equipment.
Now this is great idea. Since they are making so many of our coins there now, what's a few more? Let them make them for you. No mess in your basement, no problems of being robbed, no IRS knocking at your door. Actually any new product today, with failing economies all over the world, I'd really shy away from attemting to create something that probably just won't sell. Then too, after all such investments in the materials and the buisness takes a dive, what do you do with all that stuff? Yours may work but I doubt it very much. Recent surveys indicate that about 85% of all new buisneses fail within one year.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
135 Posts |
Essentially you'd be producing gold "rounds" not coins. Any expectation of them having value above bullion would be wrong. If gold falls you are stuck with a lot of expensive equipment and bullion value disks.
|
|
New Member
 United Kingdom
7 Posts |
reply to freezerburn & CarlThese are very good points, I've been looking into some to produce the coins for me as it will it cut cost down and eliminate some security issues I may face along the way. Just need to find the right company that wont rip me off. In china they are extremely clever  , the can almost replicate anything. I think they'll be the 1st to build cyborgs (irobot style)  lol
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5606 Posts |
I have been reading this thread and I think this is an amazing idea and headache in one, 1st did you ever think you would get a knock on your door from the "feds' or the federal reserve police, ie: making fraudulent coins or copying coins or just them thinking you are: "Just need to find the right company that wont rip me off. In china they are extremely clever , the can almost replicate anything." just like the above statement says, people are all not on the up and up, and some are down right dishonest,and will do what ever it takes to not be honest and do a days work for a days pay.I think your idea is, on a grand scale, unique,and a huge undertaking in the least, however you seem to be set to do this, at least that's what I read between the lines, and I wish you and your family all the best in your ventures.Do not take this in the wrong light, I am only thinking out loud or in print, JUST MY OPINION...
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Notice how some of us say things like "the Feds" or "the IRS"? That is because we didn't notice your from the United Kingdom, not the USA. If your over there I doubt you worry about our Federal Government. You people used to though.  Quote: Just need to find the right company that wont rip me off. In china they are extremely clever , the can almost replicate anything. I think they'll be the 1st to build cyborgs (irobot style) lol
True the Chinese are really good at replicating anything. Just remember that Lead is pretty heavy and if you gave them Gold to make coins, you may well get Gold plated Lead coins back. Then there is the next problem. Taking them to court. Yeah, right.
|
| |
Replies: 26 / Views: 3,304 |