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Pillar of the Community
manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
1361 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2008  05:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The good thing about this, you can always correct the facts but again somebody can always edit what you corrected.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2008  06:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not to mention, VAMworld, the definitive Wiki for Morgan dollars already exists, managed and closely monitored by the leading experts in the field. I don't expect many of them to jump ship any time soon.

It's an excellent idea, but I think they don't grasp just how closely a wiki needs to be monitored for factual accuracy. I'm looking forward to linking some real winners here.
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Kabiye_Lady's Avatar
United States
581 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2008  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kabiye_Lady to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's an AWESOME move forward.

Knowledge is power. Let's not get on our little hobby horses here.

The vast majority of the population is googling this and that all the time. So you land on JimsCoinsAndFacts dot com. Who verifies that?

It's another source of information. At least give it a chance. Don't quite understand the hostile comments about this before it's even had a chance. Curious.
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Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2008  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why not a 'mis-information' filter? Jest throwin' it out there. The internet is just a teenager. As it matures such applications must logically evolve....

I know, I'll put my best people on it.
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QuickSilver's Avatar
United Kingdom
1077 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  06:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add QuickSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it will be a great source of information. And like wikipedia most of it will be accurate.

A bit like this forum. We all come here for information. We get different opinions here and are able to make our own minds up on what we choose to be our truth.

The world of information is "mostly" opinions. Whether it's the news on TV, what your government chooses to tell you, or wikipedia. No difference really. Just my opinion. Don't take anything, anywhere, as gospel truth.

As others have said it will be a great starting point and resource. I welcome it.

Any encyclopedia, while purporting to be 100% factual is subject to correction. I am sure one from 1900 stated that all of Newton's laws were fact, but that was before Einstein came along.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  08:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "hostile" comments here are because (at least from my point of view):

1. PCGS has over the last few years been behaving with arrogance and a lack of understanding of collectors like you and I, and numismatics in general. They know they're #1 in the marketplace, and they feel like it's a license to take the TPG process wherever they wish.

You want a VAM attributed? It's gonna cost you $24, even if you already know what the VAM is. $24, just to have the VAM number typed onto the label, and that's in addition to the highest grading prices in the TPG business. Furthermore, they only attribute what they consider "significant" VAMs.

As a result, the first reaction of many collectors to this news, myself among them, is "What's in it for them?" PCGS is not known for doing things with altruistic motives.

Example: The Morgan dollar entries are keyed to PCGS numbers - they have spaces only for the Morgan varieties they consider significant. There are 22 1878 7/8TF varieties; PCGS' wiki has spaces for two - "Weak" and "Strong."

2. Wikis are notorious for misinformation. When anybody can add content, anybody does. And many "anybodys" know far less about coins than they think. One of our greatest foes here at CCF is misinformation; we're constantly having to correct possibly well-meaning but incorrect posts. Numismatics is nothing if not fact-intensive; check out the Peace/Morgan and US Variety forums if you don't believe me.

It's going to be a constant struggle for them to keep the information presented accurate. If they limit participation in the interest of accuracy, they defeat the purpose of a wiki and do nothing but siphon the efforts of dedicated people elsewhere.

3. They're duplicating existing work. Many highly-knowledgeable and motivated collectors are already compiling databases of the coins they specialize in. For example:

- Colonials: Go no farther than Notre Dame University's amazing compilation of colonial issues, endowed by Robert H. Gore, Jr.

http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/index.html

- EAC, particularly Tom Deck. He has 234 of the 295 Sheldon varieties photographed on his website.

http://www.largecents.net/

- Lincolns: Our own Coppercoins is one of the acknowledged leaders in the field of Lincoln Cent study; you don't even need to leave CCF to get an authoritative opinion.

http://www.coppercoins.com/

- Two Cents: Our own nohope587, who owns enough of them to be measuring his collection as a percentage of the total mintage these days.

The Barber Coin Collector's Society. The Bust Half Nut Club. Gerry Fortin for Seated coinage, especially dimes. VAMworld. Susan Headley's efforts at coins.about.com.

The information is already out there. You want to contribute? Get with the people who are doing this because it's what they love, not because they want to generate more foot traffic on their commercial site.

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QuickSilver's Avatar
United Kingdom
1077 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  09:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add QuickSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
US coins are done to death, I agree. Personally not my field of interest.

World coins do not have enough resources. (ie non US, apparently the US is not part of the world!)

This is the section of the wiki I am excited about. Hopefully being able to find out info about a countries coins from someone from that country, and not just relying on the sometimes wrong information in krause, but having somewhere to cross reference and verify. If you have more than one source and they concur, you have a higher chance the information is correct.

Apart from the dislike of PCGS, which I was not aware of, the other main objection here seems to be the fact that information may be inaccurate. Since at the moment the best all round source of information is krause, and since we all know the information in there is not always accurate either, I do not see the harm in another source of information to use as verification.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All good points, leebreeze, and I agree that world coins are a vast, untapped area of information. Perhaps this wiki can help, perhaps not.

If one is to be opinionated, it's imperative that one be willing to listen to other points and counterarguments. I would take great pleasure in admitting myself to be wrong if PCGS' wiki takes off, because in the end the collectors would be the winners.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why not? Just one more web site on a subject. As with the other millions and millions of web sites, most get lost anyway. There are numerous coin forums, as an example, and just how many do you frequent? Same with most web sites. They come and just sit there most of the time. A coin forum web site like this one is successful, but how many others last. Just one more web site about coins is just another web site about coins.
Sort of like old wives tales or nursery rimes. Read them if you find them and stop and think if they are for real.
Someone once told me to believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188770 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2008  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The world of information is "mostly" opinions. Whether it's the news on TV, what your government chooses to tell you, or wikipedia. No difference really. Just my opinion. Don't take anything, anywhere, as gospel truth.
I have to agree with you. Nicely put.
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