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Dateless Colonial Copper Coin. Need Your Help To Identify It.

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 2,340Next Topic  
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2020  09:06 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I visited an antique market yesterday,there are Two display cases where Two individuals selling coins ( not a BIG inventory but enough to go thru )so I bought a bunch of very early vintage coins and I picked this one as well.
I need your help to identify it as I exhausted my search to find a match, I am not at all familiar with this eras coins/tokens.
It is larger than Kennedy half and a tad smaller than Ike's, it has an interesting counter stamp on it with large lettering, it reads H.W.AVERY on one side and just AVERY on the other.
Thank you.

Dateless-Colonial-Copper-Coin.-Need-Your-Help-To-Identify-It.
Dateless-Colonial-Copper-Coin.-Need-Your-Help-To-Identify-It.

After posting this thread I did a little research on H.W.AVERY and I found this article in Kansas historical society referring to H.W.Avery as the former governor of Kansas ( coin maybe related to Avery family or just a coincident)
https://www.kshs.org/km/items/view/212097
And another article on H W AVERY in the 1940 Census
https://www.ancestry.com/1940-censu...Avery_5k32s1
Edited by Chase007
11/17/2020 09:37 am
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norantyki's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2020  09:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Merchant countermark on an 1806-07 British Penny of George III. Ill have a look through my J. Gavon Scott catalog to see if I can find it as an English c/m. Otherwise, we will need input from someone with a Brunk cat. to attribute the countermark, as it will likely be North American.
Edited by norantyki
11/17/2020 09:27 am
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norantyki's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2020  09:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not seeing anything in Scott, so I'd say it's North American, as per above.
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2020  09:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks norantyki, I managed to locate 2 articles on the counter stamping ( not certain if there is a relationship between the Two and the counter stamp )but would like a definite info on the coin as well, I realize it may not be possible to put a finger on the exact date.
Edited by Chase007
11/17/2020 12:54 pm
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 Posted 11/17/2020  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd just leave it there.
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suipakpaikungfu's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2020  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add suipakpaikungfu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not in my Brunk book 1st ed 1987...
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2020  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you both. appreciate your input.
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 Posted 11/17/2020  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm unsure if it's related but searching this coin lead me to some fascinating articles about W.H. Avery founder of W & T Avery. Who made scales and other anticounterfeiting measures.
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 11/18/2020  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gincoin43,

Thank you for your research, can you provide the link?
I was able to locate the article.Thanks again.
Edited by Chase007
11/18/2020 11:04 am
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 Posted 11/18/2020  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gincoin43 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are welcome, There also seems to be a place called "Avery Row" but I cannot find any pictures of these countermarks or why it was called Avery Row.
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 Posted 11/18/2020  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I might have spotted this posting sooner, had the the word "counterstamp" or "countermark appeared in the title.

Brunk doesn't list this mark as being in the western hemisphere, but that doesn't rule out the possibility. Having studied these for over forty years now, I suspect that there are more counterstamps that have yet to be listed than those that have made it into the books. If/when I can locate my other Brunk book, the one on world countermarks, I'll look to see if A.W. AVERY is listed there.

It appears to me that Avery used individual letter punches to stamp this coin's obverse. The reverse AVERY stamp may have been an improved, single-punch application. I suspect that this is likely a one-of-a-kind issue and not as likely to have served as a merchant advertising piece.

Given the strength of the stamp, in comparison to the heavy wear on the coin, I'd guess that it was stamped in the 1830-40's. The crude letter style likewise suggests that era. Whoever created these crude letter punches was not a particularly skilled craftsman; this, like a silversmith, jeweler or gunsmith.

Perhaps, Avery was a tinsmith, a blacksmith a toolmaker, etc. and marked his wares? If an H.W.AVERY stamp can be found on some mid-19th century artifact, check to see if the periods or stops between the letters are over-sized like those on this coin. Compare the letter shapes, the font. This is the best way to positively attribute a maverick counterstamp. Using this method, it took me over ten years to ID one pair of counterstamps in my collection! That said, I've attributed many dozens in a day or less.





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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 11/18/2020  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ExoGuy,

Your outstanding knowledge and information is greatly appreciated. Very interesting.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 11/19/2020  12:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Chase007 .... Thanks for the flattery. I'm humbled ....

One more thing .... I'm wondering if the discoloration which appears in some of the letters might be residue from enamel? If so, this piece may have served as a personal keepsake. Back when, many folks, particularly those who were in a masonic or other fraternal order, carried a personalized, stamped coin. They would either create their own stamp or have one made by a skilled lodge fellow. These coins served as conversation starters; this, being calling and membership cards of sorts.
Edited by ExoGuy
11/19/2020 12:45 am
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 11/19/2020  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ExoGuy,....Credit is given where credit is due.

My first hunch after taking this coin out and holding it was just that of having been a personal keepsake. It has a smooth all around even wear.
I put it under the scope and I think you are also correct on the lettering having been enameled at one point in time.

Dateless-Colonial-Copper-Coin.-Need-Your-Help-To-Identify-It.
Dateless-Colonial-Copper-Coin.-Need-Your-Help-To-Identify-It.
Dateless-Colonial-Copper-Coin.-Need-Your-Help-To-Identify-It.
Edited by Chase007
11/19/2020 1:57 pm
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 Posted 11/19/2020  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Chase007 .... Great close-up pics. The style of the letters is what many would describe as primitive. It looks like a beginning die-cutter had a hand in this creation. I'll keep my eyes out for other examples, should any surface.
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 11/19/2020  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ExoGuy....Thanks again.My favorite one is the letter H .
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