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Lincoln Cent And Toning

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twjcpj's Avatar
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77 Posts
 Posted 12/12/2008  09:16 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add twjcpj to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I love to see Lincoln's with toning, but what causes toning such as this these on ebay. In looking at toning what should attract me to a coin and what toning should alert me to stay away from a coin? Is there a red flag that would keep you away from biding on these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...220327231329

http://cgi.ebay.com/1938-LINCOLN-CE...VE_W0QQitemZ200285554932QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item200285554932&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
Edited by twjcpj
12/12/2008 09:22 am
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okie-colin's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No expert here, but I am suspicious of toning that appears uniform across the coin surface. In my experience coins that have album toning usually it starts at the rim and moves across the coin. The toning is darker near the rims and lighter near the middle. However, if you like the coin why worry about it? All toning is unnatural, some intentional and some unintentional. Just be sure it doesn't come with corrision.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  10:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From the pictures in those actions I couldn't tell you what the color or appearance of the coins are. All I'm seeing is bad photography.
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
okie-colin, " All toning is unnatural" ?
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okie-colin's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Morgans dad ? It ain't there when minted. It doesn't occur with honest circulation wear either. It is most often intended through artifical means or inintentionally through storage in bags or sulfur albums or paper with sulfur content like an envelope. What am I missing here?
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okie-colin's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  12:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One other comment I didn't intend a value judgement on toned coins with the natural or unnatural comment. I love them and love having some in my collection. I have a GSA 1884-CC Morgan with golden toning around the rim. I have commemoratives and even a few BU Lincolns with toning. We should all collect what we like.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  2:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was rather curious what you meant as well, but that makes sense.
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As stated above, I was very curious as to what exactly you meant..
Toning is a very natural process, under some conditions it occurs faster than under others, I was not sure what you meant, I LOVE A GOOD TONED COIN!
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rockdude's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rockdude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
twjcpj asks what causes toning;
Toning is a term to describe the tarnish or light patina that forms on the surface of the metal due to exposure to environmental agents or toxins.
If you have toned coins, don't try to clean them!
Edited by rockdude
12/12/2008 4:24 pm
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twjcpj's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twjcpj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love toned Lincolns, but naturally toned ones. I don't want to buy and coin that's been cleaned and someone is toning it to hide it. Will PCGS or NGC grade naturally toned coin or do they body bag all toned coins? I believe they will grade a naturally tone coin, but not on toned intentionally by someone. If this is the case how can you tell which it is naturally or unnatural.

Thanks,

Tom

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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Copper is HIGHLY reactive. Unless a coin is completely protected from air and contaminants, it will change color. The biggest culprit is sulfur because it's also a highly reactive element. It will rapidly form a micro layer on a copper surface. Most paper (especially older paper) contains sulfur and sulfur oxides. The old coin albums often had a fairly high sulfur content, that what causes the "target" type of toning. Sulfur migrates from the rim edge in very slowly over many years. This is what okie alluded to.

With coins collectors always have to be aware of artificial toning (AT). There are methods people use to quickly create a toned coin, however, these are usually easy to spot with some experience. Also, some of the coin cleaning products on the market, ie MS-70, can cause undesirable toning. Chrisb said his experiment with MS70 on a Lincoln turned the coin blue....an unattactive blue. I actually consider the term "artificial toning" to be too vague. I believe there's "intentional AT" and "unintentional AT".

Is a toned Lincoln good or bad? It depends on your preference. Some collectors like it and some don't. Personally, I like it when it's attactive and I'll buy a toned coin if it appeals to me and it's natural. And let me tell you, Lincolns can take on some wild toning! I have quite a few examples.
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BT, I believe I read on this site you are a chemist, if I am wrong I apoligize, if not I wonder if you could answer this , I have many whitman and dansco albums, and I have seen some new product that dansco has and simply; you put your albums in a treated "cover" and the album cover is guaranteed to protect the coins for 10-years, I believe it is treated with a chemical or put through a process.My question to you would be what would you place in your albums to protect them from eventual harm to the coins( undesireable toning, etc).Is there something that is on the element chart that , hinders the natural break-down of copper and silver coins? thanks, MIKE... ps: I am talking about something you would not be putting yourself or others in harm's way by using, IE: natural?
Edited by Morgans Dad
12/12/2008 8:26 pm
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 12/12/2008  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is no magic chemical! The only way to 100% protect your coins is to remove all environmental exposure, namely AIR. Albums may be fine and dandy, and some old timers may tell you so. However, I've never felt they protect well enough. This is precisely why I use airtites for all my valuable coins. You're main enemies are air and moisture, once you remove those from the equation, your coins will last virtually forever.
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neversuited1's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2008  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add neversuited1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good Stuff as always Guys!
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biokemist6's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2008  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there something that is on the element chart that , hinders the natural break-down of copper and silver coins?

Sort of- some technologies(Intercept Shield products) use sacrificial reactants to protect the coin, basically something that will react with and neutralize the harmful environment before it can affect the coin. This electrochemical phenomenon is also utilized in the maritime industry in the form of sacrificial anodes.
Edited by biokemist6
12/13/2008 11:25 am
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Morgans Dad's Avatar
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 Posted 12/13/2008  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BIO,thank-you for your reply, I have purchased the "TREATED COVERS" for the dansco's and I will see, or should I say I hope I do not see any sort of "break-down" occur, MIKE
Edited by Morgans Dad
12/13/2008 4:35 pm
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