Canada 1899 50c: Spot The Fake - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 9 / Views: 1,805
KurtS Pillar of the Community United States 5318 Posts	Posted 12/13/2008 9:55 pm I just received the forgery that Glenzy1 sent me to study--thanks! Just for fun, I've posted pics of this coin--as well as a genuine example from Heritage. Can you spot the forgery--and give your reasons? After people guess...I'll provide some more details. Here are some specs I measured on the fake: Diameter: 30mm (real is 29.72mm) Weight: 10.30 gr (scale accuracy is +/- 0.03gr). This should be 11.62gr Density test results = 8.655; .925 silver density = 10.36 Obviously one of these is plated pot metal. Coin A Coin B Report this Post to the Staff

glenzy1 Pillar of the Community Canada 1554 Posts	Posted 12/13/2008 10:01 pm WOW, great job Kurt, can't believe how soon you received it! glenzy1 Report this Post to the Staff
dan-in-crystal-lake Valued Member United States 493 Posts	Posted 12/13/2008 10:11 pm I believe coin A is the fake. The gash on Vickie's neck I think is a marker for this particular Chinese forgery. Report this Post to the Staff
KurtS Pillar of the Community United States 5318 Posts	Posted 12/13/2008 11:26 pm Dan, Correct--it's coin A When I first looked at the coin, what tipped me off initially was the granular surfaces, particularly in the type and on the leaves. Obviously the forgers know this and have moved to die-struck copies. Based on my SG test, I think it was cast in base metal and plated. A real coin was probably used as the model, look at the S in CENTS. Interesting also how low-relief details drop into the fields, another tip-off for me (of course I was told it was a fake) A few details, as captured by the brutal accuracy of my Nikkor 60mm: Notice how the ear lobe and bow drop out: It looks like the fields were worked over with a wire brush to hide the granular details and flaws: A repunched letter from the real coin? I wonder if die-struck fakes will try to show these details? The most telling part of the coin for me: I like my type extra-chunky! Report this Post to the Staff
MrCanada Pillar of the Community Canada 650 Posts	Posted 12/14/2008 12:12 am Nice work , the a did look odd it was my bet, but it's easier when you know one is fake. When you say base metal is it silver ? Report this Post to the Staff
KurtS Pillar of the Community United States 5318 Posts	Posted 12/14/2008 12:22 am Quote: When you say base metal is it silver ? Another way to say it is "de-based" metal, ie not silver or gold. Like my density test showed, it's impossible for the coin to be silver, as the SG is even much lower than 90% silver (10.31) or even copper/bronze (8.96). Report this Post to the Staff
gawd0wns Valued Member Canada 464 Posts	Posted 12/14/2008 01:27 am My gut tells me the coin on top is the fake. What I think is wrong with this coin: 1) The first thing that causes me discomfort is the overall toning of the coin. I am not an expert, however, I have never seen that yellow-orangish tinge on a silver coin. It reminds me of iron oxide (rust). Not quite like the black/darkish toning on some of my silver coins. 2) The coin surface looks too reflective.... Not quite like a circulation silver coin, and not quite proof-like, or proof. 3) There is something wrong with the denticles. They are too small. I don't know if it is the angle the photo was taken, however, the denticles appear warped/smaller underneath "CANADA" on the obverse. 4) The coin above looks like it is in VF condition, and yet, it appears to be in good condition with little surface damage, whereas the coin underneath is visibly heavily worn. L.C.W is present on the bust of Victoria, however I cannot see it enough to comment on it. I am not sure the lower portion of the bust was struck accurately. I'm going to sleep now. Goodnight! (I hope I'm right, lol) ------- I just noticed you had already posted the answer... lol.. I'm glad I was right. Now I can sleep with a clear mind. Edited by gawd0wns 12/14/2008 01:30 am Report this Post to the Staff
Zonad Pillar of the Community Canada 1471 Posts	Posted 12/14/2008 01:28 am And here's the real coin which was used as a pattern for the majority of Victoria cast copies. Note it is a 1872 which is a year where the double punched S is common. Easy for them to change the date. I just couldn't bring myself to spend $2000 for a coin which should only be worth $500 but it is one of a kind with a real unique pedigree. http://cgi.ebay.com/1872H-CANADA-50-CENT_W0QQitemZ 260304676349QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item260304676349&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1215%7C66:4%7C65:12%7C39:1%7C240:1318 Report this Post to the Staff
KurtS Pillar of the Community United States 5318 Posts	Posted 12/14/2008 02:06 am Zonad, That sure is interesting--thanks for that link. Comparing the 1872-H to the fake, I see that several marks carried over: It almost looks like the hair was tooled to bring out detail? Report this Post to the Staff
scott3270 Pillar of the Community United States 1116 Posts	Posted 12/14/2008 12:56 pm i am no expert on these because I dont collect them but I did notice there was a difference in the noses coin a has a skinnier look and is more pointed. where as coin b has a bigger less pointed nose. so looking at a picture of one in my coin book I came to the conclusion that coin a was fake. all so coin b has a more natural look to it. Edited by scott3270 12/14/2008 12:59 pm Report this Post to the Staff
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