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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,713 |
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Pillar of the Community
1110 Posts |
Is there a way to tell if 3rd party grader pop reports are accurate and up to date?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8938 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 1110 Posts |
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They always are And how exactly do we know that? They tell us? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3469 Posts |
Do you honestly think these companies would risk harming their reputation and place in the market by intentionally posting inaccurate information?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
I can assure you they are neither up to date nor accurate. For example they have not changed the population report for the 1953 Large Denticle variety in over a year (still showing 39 examples) even though a number of fresh examples have come up for sale. Or the number of 1926 Serif Sixpence has just 3 examples in MS62, yet I know of at least 2 examples in the collections of others and I personally own 2 examples. Oh they also count scores of the Large Denticle variety as the regular denticle variety (I own 5 such examples) so the real number is probably double what their report shows
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Pillar of the Community
1110 Posts |
Quote:
Do you honestly think these companies would risk harming their reputation and place in the market by intentionally posting inaccurate information? When I said accurate, I didn't mean to insinuate they were "intentionally posting inaccurate information." I should have just said; Do you think the numbers (totals) are up to date. Another-words as they grade the coins, are those grades being added to the pop report totals in a timely manner? |
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Pillar of the Community
1110 Posts |
Quote:
I can assure you they are neither up to date nor accurate. For example they have not changed the population report for the 1953 Large Denticle variety in over a year (still showing 39 examples) even though a number of fresh examples have come up for sale. Or the number of 1926 Serif Sixpence has just 3 examples in MS62, yet I know of at least 2 examples in the collections of others and I personally own 2 examples. Oh they also count scores of the Large Denticle variety as the regular denticle variety (I own 5 such examples) so the real number is probably double what their report shows And that's exactly what I'm talking about. I've noticed the something. I'm just looking for a reality check and see if you guys have an opinion. Edited by MOS0239
02/03/2021 8:30 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8938 Posts |
I should clarify they are accurate to the number of coins they have graded, which means that DOES included coins that were cracked. PCGS, NGC, and ANACS will automatically update the pop (adding your coin) to the pop prior to it leaving the facility.
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Pillar of the Community
1110 Posts |
Quote:
I should clarify they are accurate to the number of coins they have graded, which means that DOES included coins that were cracked. PCGS, NGC, and ANACS will automatically update the pop (adding your coin) to the pop prior to it leaving the facility. Okay if your confident about that, now we're getting somewhere. Thanks. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
What a load of codswallop Grape. Their population report is NOT accurate and I know none of the 4 examples in MS62 that I mentioned have been cracked. Their totals are also not automatically updated and to quote the PCGS website "modern coins are added to these tables only a few times per year, thereby potentially creating a false impression of a relatively small population associated with any particular modern coin in a specific grade". That last sentence in particular applies to an example I saw a year ago, a 1956 threepence in MS66 was bid to over $600, at the time the population report would have shown maybe 10 examples in MS65, 10 in MS66 and 1 in MS67, but there were another 20 plus in 65, ditto in 66 and 2 in 67 on their way back to me from HK PCGS, so the winning bidder was mislead if he relied on the population report.
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Pillar of the Community
1110 Posts |
Now it's getting good.
Hey, any 3rd party grader employees here? HELP!!
Edited by MOS0239
02/03/2021 9:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8938 Posts |
Not sure why that'd be. I just had a few very low pop or top pop coins slabbed and pop was updated before I even had them back. Quote:
modern coins are added to these tables only a few times per year, thereby potentially creating a false impression of a relatively small population associated with any particular modern coin in a specific grad Can you point out where it says that? All I see is this. Quote:
The PCGS Population Report profiles the number of coins certified by PCGS at a given grade for each date, denomination, mint mark and variety. BECAUSE THE Population Report CONTAINS INFORMATION ONLY WITH RESPECT TO THOSE COINS WHICH HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED TO AND CERTIFIED BY PCGS, IT SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON TO DETERMINE ACTUAL OR RELATIVE VALUES OF PARTICULAR COINS IN THE MARKETPLACE. The values of many issues, such as most proof coins minted after 1954, do not justify submission to PCGS for grading. The populations reported herein for such coins are therefore significantly lower than the actual numbers available in the marketplace. The information contained herein is compiled from the computer data base maintained by PCGS for this purpose. Information is posted to this data base on a daily basis, and population figures for any given coin can change substantially over a short period of time. These population figures represent the number of coins processed from PCGS and may not reflect any reduction for coins that have been lost, destroyed, or removed from PCGS holders. Note that dealers often remove coins from PCGS holders and re-submit them in hopes of receiving a higher grade. Sometimes the dealers return the old inserts to PCGS so that coins can be removed from the Population Report, but sometimes they do not. PCGS makes reasonable efforts to maintain and publish accurate information, however, it disclaims any responsibility of liability for the accuracy or completeness of the information contained herein. Certain varieties recently recognized by PCGS are now included in this Population Report. The populations reported for these coins may be artificially low, and not representative of the actual number of these coins available in the marketplace. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
PCGS.com/pop/PCGS-population-totals
That is the page from which that quote comes . It is the second paragraph. It has a last update at 2/3/2021. The page you have I know has not changed since 2013 (or before) and that PCGS has a number of contradictory/obtuse/confusing things online it leads to these sorts of conflicting views.
I should add that PCGS intentionally distorts the numbers of coins in newly recognised varieties and as an example 4 of my '53 Large Denticle variety florins were slabbed prior to them classifying the '53s as Large or Small. So they arbitrarily classified them as small without bothering to look at their stored images. So is their record keeping not up to scratch or they are lazy or are they trying to gouge more money by requiring reholdering? The 5th example was slabbed as small when it is large so the graders are either Mr Magoo or have no idea what they are doing.
Edited by nealeffendi
02/03/2021 10:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
1110 Posts |
Maybe we should talk about toning.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,713 |
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Posted 02/03/2021 5:30 pm
