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Nice 1888 Bead Punch Large Cent

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papeldog's Avatar
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 Posted 02/04/2021  4:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Found this on e bay a couple weeks back I think maybe been lightly cleaned but in nice condition hard one to find in this condition.

What would you grade it: pictures


Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent
Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent
Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent

It also has a small piece of metal laminated in the C in Cent.


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 Posted 02/04/2021  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "bead-punch" 8 in the 1888 is a tough one to find. It's on p 235 in the 2011 Charlton. Someone on the mint floor took a bead punch to the lower left inside loop of an 1888 working die middle 8 to repair some flaw. Papeldog's photo makes it hard to see since you only see about 1/4 of the right side of the punch sticking out into the 8. Nice find. What's the metal? I'd say XF+ for wear, maybe AU, but don't know what the metal scab would do to any grade.
Edited by okiecoiner
02/04/2021 4:50 pm
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 Posted 02/04/2021  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If memory serves me correct, didn't Turner write a nice article in the CN Journal some years ago on the bead punch 8?

I don't see it on his website: https://www.victoriancent.com
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 02/04/2021  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rob had written about it somewhere, but don't remember where or when
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 Posted 02/05/2021  04:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I first proposed that it was re-punched bead in a short write up I posted on CCRS. The post was supported by photo overlays showing it exactly fit the size of the bead punch. I did not publish any articles on it.
http://www.victoriancent.com

2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
02/05/2021 10:25 am
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 Posted 02/05/2021  11:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1888 bead punch is my favorite 88 to look for out of the 1888 varieties.

Here's a better picture of the last 2 8's showing the bead punch in the second 8


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 Posted 02/05/2021  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great pickup looks to be no less then EF to me with a very good chance of AU in hand.
The bead punch reverse was paired with two different obverse dies yours looks to be the second pairing.
The reverse die developed a die crack at leaf 14 very early in it's live as I have yet to find one with no die crack at leaf 14.
The first obverse paired with this reverse die developed circular die cracks connecting most letters in DEI GRATA REGINA AND CANADA.
The second obverse will not have the circular die cracks but can be ID'ed by a small die chip between the D & A in Canada just below the beads.
Hard to tell for sure but I believe I see the die chip between the D & A on your coin and the die crack at L14 on the reverse is about as developed as it gets. This would mean your coin is from the second pairing.
Neither pairing would be considered rare but I find the second pairing to be somewhat more plentiful.
I should point out that the circular die cracks are very minor and can be difficult to see on worn or dirty coins.
Padeldog can you supply a closeup picture showing the area between the D & A in Canada?

Cheers, Bill
The first four pictures show some of the die cracks found on the first obverse used the last picture shows the die chip between the D & A in Canada found on the second obverse.

Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent
Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent
Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent
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 Posted 02/05/2021  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I first proposed that it was re-punched bead in a short write up I posted on CCRS. The post was supported by photo overlays showing it exactly fit the size of the bead punch. I did not publish any articles on it.


I recall reading that. It was before we met, but I remember thinking - that's how you research properly. Maybe it could be dusted off as a nice short project to reproduce that for your website?
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 02/05/2021  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your correct Bill it has the dot you talk about between the D A in Canada and the die crack at leaf 14

Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent

I have another about the same condition Bill that has the die crack at leaf 14 on the Reverse and it also has the die cracks you mention on the first obverse. but I think it also has a very small dot between the D A in Canada its in a PCGS hard Slab but it sure looks like the dot you refer to
Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent
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Edited by papeldog
02/05/2021 3:36 pm
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 Posted 02/06/2021  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gidjit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the bead punch 8 is also my favorite of the 1888s here is a pic of mine but look at the bead punch in the other side of the loop it almost looks like something other than a bead was used

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 Posted 02/06/2021  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen lots of overpunches on the Vicky cents. Many will show inside of closed lettering or digits. I think that they go ahead and repunch to correct some problem, but then polish the die around the outside of wherever they have punched. In this case, I think that the die was polished outside the 8, but was too hard to do inside the digit ... easy on the outside.
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 Posted 02/06/2021  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gidjit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
so maybe they didnt use a bead punch?
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 Posted 02/06/2021  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The thread on CCRS was dated January 7 and 8, 2010. It is still there, but I do not see a way to link to it. Here is what I posted then, along with the supporting photo. You be the judge.

"I picture a scenario where something bumped the die in that spot and peened over a small piece of the outside edge of the 8. The engraver decided to just fix that spot with the bead punch instead of re-punching the whole digit. When he was done, it looked fine to him, but little did he know that 120 years later we all critique his work at 30X."



Nice-1888-Bead-Punch-Large-Cent
http://www.victoriancent.com

2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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 Posted 02/06/2021  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After looking at Gidgit's coin, I think it is plausible that early die states showed evidence of the initial die damage that the engraver attempted to repair.
http://www.victoriancent.com

2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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