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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,500 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
Found this on e bay a couple weeks back I think maybe been lightly cleaned but in nice condition hard one to find in this condition. What would you grade it: pictures    It also has a small piece of metal laminated in the C in Cent. 
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
The "bead-punch" 8 in the 1888 is a tough one to find. It's on p 235 in the 2011 Charlton. Someone on the mint floor took a bead punch to the lower left inside loop of an 1888 working die middle 8 to repair some flaw. Papeldog's photo makes it hard to see since you only see about 1/4 of the right side of the punch sticking out into the 8. Nice find. What's the metal? I'd say XF+ for wear, maybe AU, but don't know what the metal scab would do to any grade.
Edited by okiecoiner 02/04/2021 4:50 pm
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
If memory serves me correct, didn't Turner write a nice article in the CN Journal some years ago on the bead punch 8? I don't see it on his website: https://www.victoriancent.com
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
Rob had written about it somewhere, but don't remember where or when
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1352 Posts |
I first proposed that it was re-punched bead in a short write up I posted on CCRS. The post was supported by photo overlays showing it exactly fit the size of the bead punch. I did not publish any articles on it.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox 02/05/2021 10:25 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1923 Posts |
The 1888 bead punch is my favorite 88 to look for out of the 1888 varieties. Here's a better picture of the last 2 8's showing the bead punch in the second 8 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1223 Posts |
Great pickup looks to be no less then EF to me with a very good chance of AU in hand. The bead punch reverse was paired with two different obverse dies yours looks to be the second pairing. The reverse die developed a die crack at leaf 14 very early in it's live as I have yet to find one with no die crack at leaf 14. The first obverse paired with this reverse die developed circular die cracks connecting most letters in DEI GRATA REGINA AND CANADA. The second obverse will not have the circular die cracks but can be ID'ed by a small die chip between the D & A in Canada just below the beads. Hard to tell for sure but I believe I see the die chip between the D & A on your coin and the die crack at L14 on the reverse is about as developed as it gets. This would mean your coin is from the second pairing. Neither pairing would be considered rare but I find the second pairing to be somewhat more plentiful. I should point out that the circular die cracks are very minor and can be difficult to see on worn or dirty coins. Padeldog can you supply a closeup picture showing the area between the D & A in Canada? Cheers, Bill The first four pictures show some of the die cracks found on the first obverse used the last picture shows the die chip between the D & A in Canada found on the second obverse.     
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote: I first proposed that it was re-punched bead in a short write up I posted on CCRS. The post was supported by photo overlays showing it exactly fit the size of the bead punch. I did not publish any articles on it. I recall reading that. It was before we met, but I remember thinking - that's how you research properly. Maybe it could be dusted off as a nice short project to reproduce that for your website?
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1923 Posts |
Your correct Bill it has the dot you talk about between the D A in Canada and the die crack at leaf 14  I have another about the same condition Bill that has the die crack at leaf 14 on the Reverse and it also has the die cracks you mention on the first obverse. but I think it also has a very small dot between the D A in Canada its in a PCGS hard Slab but it sure looks like the dot you refer to  
Edited by papeldog 02/05/2021 3:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1980 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
I have seen lots of overpunches on the Vicky cents. Many will show inside of closed lettering or digits. I think that they go ahead and repunch to correct some problem, but then polish the die around the outside of wherever they have punched. In this case, I think that the die was polished outside the 8, but was too hard to do inside the digit ... easy on the outside.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1980 Posts |
so maybe they didnt use a bead punch?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1352 Posts |
The thread on CCRS was dated January 7 and 8, 2010. It is still there, but I do not see a way to link to it. Here is what I posted then, along with the supporting photo. You be the judge. "I picture a scenario where something bumped the die in that spot and peened over a small piece of the outside edge of the 8. The engraver decided to just fix that spot with the bead punch instead of re-punching the whole digit. When he was done, it looked fine to him, but little did he know that 120 years later we all critique his work at 30X." 
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1352 Posts |
After looking at Gidgit's coin, I think it is plausible that early die states showed evidence of the initial die damage that the engraver attempted to repair.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,500 |
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