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Replies: 28 / Views: 3,683 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7509 Posts |
Edited by Chase007 02/14/2021 5:52 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
Thanks for this ! An eye opener indeed! The sad thing is .......... there is a market ! Not to get political, I refuse to shop at places where everything seems to be made in China and try to find an alternative . It is very difficult on some things!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7509 Posts |
I see what you mean, what we see here is just a tip of the Iceberg.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3635 Posts |
We're on the verge of seeing the most difficult-to-detect counterfeits yet. The combination of 3D printing, quality reducing lathes in the hands of counterfeiters, and laser cutting is already here. Buckle the seatbelts. This will be the hobby's biggest challenge.
The crude first generation counterfeits are becoming a thing of the past. Sand casting, electrotypes, and plating shell casts are old school and usually easily identifiable.
The second generation transfer-die-struck counterfeits are still the norm. They are typically easily identifiable, especially with muled varieties and more variety collectors.
The third generation of die struck counterfeits is tougher, with laser cut master dies and techniques to obscure the counterfeit's surface. Couple these with fake slabs, and that's the issue we are seeing now.
What is becoming more concerning is the use of standard minting equipment, such as reducing lathes, high pressure coining presses, and collars. Couple that with 3D images and 3D printing, and we're in a new world.
Don't rule out hand cut dies, either. Most of them are comical, but at least two classes of hand cut die counterfeits are brutal. The "Omega" counterfeits and the Arab US gold counterfeits from the 1960s-1970s are exceptional. Significantly, they used proper alloy planchets.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5178 Posts |
I wish there was a more accurate isotope identification tool to gauge the age of a coin. Just like there is with carbon dating. Would be cool to put a coin into a machine and get the age of the planchet metal composition in a minute. Would be impossible to fake that.
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Useful reading but that scares the heck out of me , I'm sure others will agree . 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5178 Posts |
It is like the drugs trade: as long as there is demand from the US, the dealers will oblige. Unfortunately, there is no "War on Counterfeits" as far as I know... 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7509 Posts |
Quote: I wish there was a more accurate isotope identification tool to gauge the age of a coin Good point but, 1-we are up against literally Thousands of fakes 2- I am thinking even if this gadget was or is to be invented, an collectors and coin hobby enthusiasts will not be able to afford it unless it is fee sable for average Joe to purchase. fortcollins has some valid points and sadly enough these people and their techniques are becoming ever so advanced and sophisticated.
Edited by Chase007 02/14/2021 5:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
824 Posts |
Thanks for the link. Very eye opening. Very sad for our hobby.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7509 Posts |
Quote: Very sad for our hobby. Truly. and they are not limiting to just the US coinage,it's a worldwide issue.
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Moderator
 United States
188052 Posts |
This one has come up several times...  Originally here, then here and here.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7509 Posts |
Quote: This one has come up several times. Yes, you are correct, it has and there are still those who have not seen those topics or read the article in dept.with this alarming issue if a few see it for the first time and are made aware like those above, then I'd think it was worth re-hashing this subject, the same could be said about educating members who are regularly/daily trying to learn MD,DDD, versus DD, this is a kind of hubby we've chosen and you can never learn enough 
Edited by Chase007 02/15/2021 11:45 am
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Moderator
 United States
188052 Posts |
This is true! And thank you for uploading the photos.  I complained in one of the previous topics that the off-site hosted photos had disappeared. These should stick around for a long, long time. 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7509 Posts |
Thank you as well for all your hard work.
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17911 Posts |
Quote: Useful reading but that scares the heck out of me  When I visited China as part of a group on a package tour in 2001, we were taken to so-called 'Friendship Stores' for shopping. Among the inevitable postcards, fridge magnets and reproduction Terracotta Warriors, there would always be some coins, but they were usually very crude fakes struck in greyish-coloured metal. I almost bought one for a joke: it had the reverse of a St Helena 1986 'Andrew & Fergie' crown and an obverse from a completely different coin! It scares me how much progress the Chinese forgers have made in two decades!
Edited by NumisRob 02/15/2021 1:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7509 Posts |
Quote: It scares me how much progress the Chinese forgers have made in two decades! I agree. I would say if you were to re-visit the same store, they probably have increased their fake coins inventory tenfold 
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Replies: 28 / Views: 3,683 |