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Inside A Chinese Coin Counterfeiting Ring

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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  11:58 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
There are topics posted regarding Chinese fakes here. This is quite an eye opener article and useful information.

https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/chi...ring-4071202

Inside-A-Chinese-Coin-Counterfeiting-Ring
Inside-A-Chinese-Coin-Counterfeiting-Ring
Inside-A-Chinese-Coin-Counterfeiting-Ring
Inside-A-Chinese-Coin-Counterfeiting-Ring[/code]
Inside-A-Chinese-Coin-Counterfeiting-Ring
Edited by Chase007
02/14/2021 5:52 pm
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 02/14/2021  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for this !
An eye opener indeed!
The sad thing is .......... there is a market !
Not to get political, I refuse to shop at places where
everything seems to be made in China and try to find
an alternative . It is very difficult on some things!
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see what you mean, what we see here is just a tip of the Iceberg.
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We're on the verge of seeing the most difficult-to-detect counterfeits yet. The combination of 3D printing, quality reducing lathes in the hands of counterfeiters, and laser cutting is already here. Buckle the seatbelts. This will be the hobby's biggest challenge.

The crude first generation counterfeits are becoming a thing of the past. Sand casting, electrotypes, and plating shell casts are old school and usually easily identifiable.

The second generation transfer-die-struck counterfeits are still the norm. They are typically easily identifiable, especially with muled varieties and more variety collectors.

The third generation of die struck counterfeits is tougher, with laser cut master dies and techniques to obscure the counterfeit's surface. Couple these with fake slabs, and that's the issue we are seeing now.

What is becoming more concerning is the use of standard minting equipment, such as reducing lathes, high pressure coining presses, and collars. Couple that with 3D images and 3D printing, and we're in a new world.

Don't rule out hand cut dies, either. Most of them are comical, but at least two classes of hand cut die counterfeits are brutal. The "Omega" counterfeits and the Arab US gold counterfeits from the 1960s-1970s are exceptional. Significantly, they used proper alloy planchets.
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NumisEd's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wish there was a more accurate isotope identification tool to gauge the age of a coin. Just like there is with carbon dating.
Would be cool to put a coin into a machine and get the age of the planchet metal composition in a minute. Would be impossible to fake that.
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T-BOP's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Useful reading but that scares the heck out of me , I'm sure others will agree .
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NumisEd's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is like the drugs trade: as long as there is demand from the US, the dealers will oblige.
Unfortunately, there is no "War on Counterfeits" as far as I know...
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wish there was a more accurate isotope identification tool to gauge the age of a coin

Good point but, 1-we are up against literally Thousands of fakes 2- I am thinking even if this gadget was or is to be invented, an collectors and coin hobby enthusiasts will not be able to afford it unless it is fee sable for average Joe to purchase.
fortcollins has some valid points and sadly enough these people and their techniques are becoming ever so advanced and sophisticated.
Edited by Chase007
02/14/2021 5:01 pm
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Bud250r's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bud250r to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the link.
Very eye opening.
Very sad for our hobby.
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 02/14/2021  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Very sad for our hobby.

Truly. and they are not limiting to just the US coinage,it's a worldwide issue.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 02/15/2021  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one has come up several times...

Originally here, then here and here.
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 02/15/2021  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This one has come up several times.

Yes, you are correct, it has and there are still those who have not seen those topics or read the article in dept.with this alarming issue if a few see it for the first time and are made aware like those above, then I'd think it was worth re-hashing this subject, the same could be said about educating members who are regularly/daily trying to learn MD,DDD, versus DD, this is a kind of hubby we've chosen and you can never learn enough
Edited by Chase007
02/15/2021 11:45 am
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 02/15/2021  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is true!

And thank you for uploading the photos.

I complained in one of the previous topics that the off-site hosted photos had disappeared. These should stick around for a long, long time.
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 02/15/2021  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you as well for all your hard work.
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NumisRob's Avatar
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 Posted 02/15/2021  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Useful reading but that scares the heck out of me


When I visited China as part of a group on a package tour in 2001, we were taken to so-called 'Friendship Stores' for shopping. Among the inevitable postcards, fridge magnets and reproduction Terracotta Warriors, there would always be some coins, but they were usually very crude fakes struck in greyish-coloured metal. I almost bought one for a joke: it had the reverse of a St Helena 1986 'Andrew & Fergie' crown and an obverse from a completely different coin! It scares me how much progress the Chinese forgers have made in two decades!
Edited by NumisRob
02/15/2021 1:02 pm
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 02/15/2021  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It scares me how much progress the Chinese forgers have made in two decades!

I agree. I would say if you were to re-visit the same store, they probably have increased their fake coins inventory tenfold
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