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Peru 1831 Cuzco 8 Reals Underweight

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New Member

United States
28 Posts
 Posted 12/22/2008  9:54 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ywan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I bid this from ebay from a reputable seller. It looks has no problem and the edge is also good. However, the weight is only 26.2 grams, more than 1 gram less than the specified weight of 27.07 grams. Any idea if underweight is common for such coin? Thanks!

Image: Peru-1831-Cuzco-8-Reals-Underweight c6a7_1.jpg
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Image: Peru-1831-Cuzco-8-Reals-Underweight c819_1.jpg
28.92 KB
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 12/23/2008  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ywan - I have several counterfeits of the Peruvian 8 Sol and I am familiar with the type. The coin you have seems to use the correct die matrix and based on what I can see I can not see anything I would call a problem.

I will check my records and post a second reply after that.
New Member
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 12/23/2008  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ywan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Swamperbob! so is it common for such coin to have underweight?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 12/23/2008  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ywan - I knew I had seen that coin before. It was one I had bid on recently. You outbid me for it.

When I bid - I wondered if it was possibly counterfeit. I figured either way counterfeit or real a $75 bid was safe. I was hoping it would be a forgery. While there was nothing that PROVED it was a fake - I had a HUNCH.

So if I were you I would check the specific gravity of the coin just to be sure. The fact that it is SO light makes me wonder if I was correct - it may be a forgery. The normal tolerance for that era is 3% of total weight. Outside that range and you have a coin that SHOULD HAVE BEEN REMELTED. 97% of 27.07 grams is 26.26 grams. Your coin is at the absolute LIMIT. The SG should be 10.3 if it is real silver but could be as low as 8.9 if it is forged.

If it turns out to be a counterfeit I would be willing to buy it from you.
Edited by swamperbob
12/23/2008 10:11 pm
New Member
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2008  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ywan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK. is there a reference about how to do SG for coin?
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wwhitman's Avatar
United States
1415 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2008  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wwhitman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ywan,
Ya need a special balance. It weighs object suspended in water. Unless you happen to have one (I think outside of colleges/universities only SwamperBob has one. )
Your best bet is to go to local university and as a chemistry student to do it for you.
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swamperbob's Avatar
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5362 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2008  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Specific gravity is not all that hard. I learned how to do it as a Junior in High School. That was 47 years ago and I still remember how. Most decent mechanical scales can be adapted easily.

Digital scales are nice but NOT accurate enough. You can get by with a triple beam balance that weighs accurately to 1/100th of a gram but a Four Beam balance scale that weighs to 1/1000th of a gram is much better.

First you weigh the coin accurately to at least a 1/100 gram. That weight call W.

Next fashion a harness to hold the coin using a piece of wood or anything handy and wire or string. Position the scale on a box or anything handy so that the coin dangles freely from the harness. Then weigh the coin plus the harness in air. Call that W2.

Then take a pan of water (room temperature tap water is ok, distilled demineralized is better but not everyone has that ability). Add a drop or two of household detergent to the water to break surface tension. Then immerse the coin completely in the water. Take the weight now. That is W3.

The math is easy - the displacement of the coin is W2 minus W3. Water weighs 1 gram per cubic centimeter. So if the assembly is 2 grams lighter in water - the coin is 2 cubic centimeters.

The Specific Gravity is W divided by the displacement. W / (W2-W3)

There are refinements of course. If you use a wire basket you want to weigh that in water and air to correct for the effect. But to check to see if a coin is silver or copper that is ALL you need to do. Copper has an SG near 9 while coin silver is 10.3.

Now if the coin has no ring - you could have a lead based alloy with zinc which could be as dense as silver but for coins that ring SG is best.

Don't be put off by this test it is simple and it just requires practice.

Here is a sketch I made - hope it helps.

Image: Peru-1831-Cuzco-8-Reals-Underweight SpecificGravity.jpg
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