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 Replies: 26 / Views: 5,136 |
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Moderator
 United States
34409 Posts |
@gab, I'm not seeing a seem as @roth is, but perhaps you can add a well-lit pic of the edge to help us confirm? Also, I'm not sure why someone would make a Magician's coin, but nominally use the correct obv and rev.  "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Valued Member
 United States
165 Posts |
I'm usually very good at photographing coins and tokens. It took dozens of iterations but I finally figured out a way to do this well. Let me know what you think.   |
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Moderator
United States
34409 Posts |
Ok yes well done with the new pics. I'm not seeing a seam, but am interested to hear what others are thinking.  "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Valued Member
206 Posts |
I'm thinking contemporary counterfeit from the 1860's-1880's, cause the dies appear to be made out of an already worn out quarter eagle, and it's been in the family for a while.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
I've had a few of the $2.50 Liberty heads in Gold that were counterfeit over the years, usually looked better than an original they were so well made. The really well done and struck reeds and dentils were often the give away, according to the experts that informed me that I had just bought bogus gold coins.
That said this one I'd bet is a German spiel mark or gamming token often used in card games. There are a few that are almost dead ringers for US Gold coins usually struck in brass, billon or copper. Unless it's some sort of pattern/trial piece, which would be really cool.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
04/22/2021 11:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
Based on the sloppy lettering, I don't think the die was made from a real coin.
Very interesting piece.
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Valued Member
United States
165 Posts |
"usually struck in brass, billion or copper" this threw me! I had to look up "billon" which I had never heard of in my fifty +/- years of collecting coins. For those people wiki challenged, "Billon is an alloy of a precious metal (most commonly silver, but also gold) with a majority base metal content (such as copper). It is used chiefly for making coins, medals, and token coins."
Thanks for this!!!
Edited by GABatGH
04/23/2021 01:24 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Fixed my typo thanks. Probably auto correct, as I knew what I meant. I only knew about billon due to my favorite coin the Two Cent Piece, which had some patterns made using billon metal, so I had a little experience with it before. It's an odd looking almost like brass look to it. Here is what an 1836 US Two Cent pattern struck in billon looks like: https://sep.yimg.com/ca/I/uspatterns_2270_68474737Original pieces in billon were supposedly 10% silver and 90% copper. The illustrated example, believed to be a later restrike, is from the Bryon Reed collection and was determined to be 42% silver and 58% copper. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
billion was commonly used on older small denomination German states coins. Common practice was to acid treat the coins after striking to remove copper form the coins surfaces to temporarily give them the appearance of good silver.
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Valued Member
United States
128 Posts |
a copper alloy? If it were pure copper it would be about 2g if I did that math right (4.2g / 19.x g/cm3 gives .2174 cm3, back to copper for that volume gives about 2g)
so yea if you did 50/50 silver it would be 1g + 1.5g -> 2.5 which is ballpark (sorry, doing this stuff in my head). And the gold isn't likely pure gold, so that would account for some weight, its probably 10ct?
Edited by jonnin
04/24/2021 12:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
Jonnin, it sounds like you're trying to calculate mass from density without knowing the volume.
Assuming the coin is 2.7 g of pure copper (8.96 g/mL) and a real 1844 quarter eagle is 4.18 g of 90% gold, 10% copper (net 17.30 g/mL), the volume of this coin would only have to be 24.7% greater than normal. I don't think that's unreasonable without having an accurate measurement.
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Replies: 26 / Views: 5,136 |
First Page
Posted 04/22/2021 09:23 am
