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Newfoundland 1898 50 Cents

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 Posted 06/26/2021  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Someone does research and publishes a catalog of varieties with markers.
You can't just put that in your own competing catalog without acknowledgement.
So I was told.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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 Posted 06/26/2021  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some "observations" or "names" have been described verbally and then put on paper by Zoell, or Griffin or Turner or anyone else. Without that author's permission, they can't be reused.
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 Posted 06/26/2021  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Re: Copyright
to copy someone's description as written by that person is possibly an infringement... possibly.
However one can use their own description without it being an infringement.
Charlton has nothing more than copyright protection from copying what they printed and re-using it for another publication.
Charlton has absolutely NO right over the way you describe a coin, even if you use the same or similar description. However, you can not use their images without permission, unless it says somewhere in the book that permission "to copy" and use for educational purposes is granted.
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 Posted 06/26/2021  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, Charlton owns the copyright for 1859 DP's #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and no one else can use that in their description without their OK. When 5 of us wrote the large cent variety section in the 2011 Charlton, we came up with the DP3 & 4. Since there already was a DP#1 & 2, we named 3 & 4 to differentiate the way that the R/P actually was, so the DP#1 was essentially a H/L repunch and the #2 was a R/L. So we made the #3 as a L/H and a #4 as the only one left for direction. Then we named the #5 because it had such an offset and nothing directional would refer to it. The 5 of us have permission to use those DP#'s from Charlton, but other guides don't. Charlton has given permission to most of the major auction houses and some TPG's to use them as well. But if you look at the Haxby and Whitman books, they can't use them. I am not a copyright lawyer, so you all can hash this out any way that you want, but publishers really take this seriously, regardless how some of it makes no sense.
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 Posted 06/26/2021  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okie,
I very much, and most of the time, I respect your opinion, as your knowledge is hard to contradict.
You do know a ton, actually, much more than a ton about coins. I wish I would only know 10% of what you know. You are seriously an expert at it.
Now to copyright and Charlton.
Most of these terms have become "public domain" in the meantime, meaning everyone can use these terms. And everyone does use them. Just do not copy directly from the book.
I have not checked the CR details at this time, but everybody can do that without a lawyer being needed.
If Charlton would have wanted to keep their CR protection, if they ever had any for these terms'', which I much doubt, they would have been obliged to inform everyone who uses their terms of the rights they have toward the protection of the terms describing the object or part of it. They did not. They might have told you guys that the images and the books as such and as a whole were CR protected. Which they automatically are without even having to be registered. But, I have yet to see any objection to the use of these terms describing certain coins. These terms, describing differences in coins are common property and anybody can use them without restrictions. Jut not copying from the books.
However, you can not copy pictures and their descriptions directly and use these for other purposes. But there are also exceptions. And "permission to use" is usually given by the creator. (credit given etc etc)
Years ago I had a chat with Bill Cross when I asked him for permission to copy certain pages of 1858 and 1859's, for use in our coin club. Whole pages which you guys designed and wrote. You guys, the writers, transferred YOUR copyright to YOUR work, to Charlton or Bill Cross.
His words: I appreciate you making the effort to ask, but it is open domain. I then explained to him again that I wanted to copy complete pages of the book. he said, his words: "Thank you for taking the time contacting me to ask. that makes me feel good" from his place in Florida I believe. he then went on to tell me, that ONLY the contents as originally written in the books are CR. Not individual items. he also told me that the photographs are copyright with the respective person who took the images,unless these were purchased from the creator, probably Scott Cornwell, Brians son, or whoever took the original pictures.
Personally, I was involved, and still am with a CR issue (which at this time has not been really settled,) The issue is about my coins and pictures I took and I then sold the coins.....but not the pictures of the coins. It is a mistake to assume the rights to the pictures automatically transferred with the object. I would have had no issue with it, had the buyer asked, but the new coin owner represented the pictures as his own.
ask any lawyer.
Charlton has an automatic CR on their publications, just like any publisher has. But not necessarily on the images contained in it or the text in it. Unless they have an agreement with the Photographer and or writer of the publication.
It would be a seriously messy mess to challenge that. you could make lawyers very rich.
.
DBM, CR only applies if someone infringes on the rights by copying the originator's or creator's items, not by describing items in their own way using similar, known and existing terminology. Especially of something which is" open and unchallenged domain". Copyright to something can only apply to something created by someone. Coin descriptions as such are NOT copyright protected. It does not matter whatever terms you use to describe coins.
For example, the RCM has copyright protection on all pictures they create of coins and use But they can not have a copyright on the actual coins themselves. They get protection automatically by the Law. Anyone can photograph the coins and make descriptions for them. But the RCM has design protection on the coins they mint in a more powerful form: anyone who copies the coins is a forger.
Edited by 47P7
06/27/2021 10:48 am
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