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"Roman Coin 330 Ad" Fake'?

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LeatherHawk's Avatar
United States
82 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  2:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add LeatherHawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I got this coin in a lot I purchased on ebay. For the most part, I'm happy with what I received with the exception of a few coins and this is one of them.

First, I noticed how it looked like this coin had been cut. Once I took my pictures, you can tell this has for sure been cut.

Second, if you look at the inside of the coin, it looks like the outside had been antiqued in some manner and dripped into the fresh cut. Which also is, in my opinion, way too bright for a 1700-year-old coin.

Thoughts are appreciated as I try to figure out how to rectify the errors of this lot.





Edited by LeatherHawk
07/01/2021 2:20 pm
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JohnConduitt's Avatar
United Kingdom
725 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why do you think it's Roman? It's very round and flat.
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LeatherHawk's Avatar
United States
82 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LeatherHawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John,
It's how it was described in the description of the lot I bought that it was included in. It's also came labeled like this.....

Edited by LeatherHawk
07/01/2021 5:22 pm
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louisvillekyshop's Avatar
United States
1304 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I wonder if the person was just writing on the flip whatever they thought to write as now you have what is supposed to be a Roman coin from exactly 330 AD and how in the world do they get that from this coin fragment? What was that the Constantine I era? What coin was that supposed to be part of? And they might have been even using an old bronze coin from about 330 flip to put this in. So I'd say that is a later coin of perhaps the middle ages and I have a very hard time making out any letters. As for being "Fake" it is probably not "Fake" it is just mis-labeled and has no real value to fake like this. Someone took this coin remnant that was silver from wherever and put it in a flip that had some other writing on it already. Then the next person bought a lot and it was there and they never took it out of the flip and you have it probably. Just my opinion of course.
Edited by louisvillekyshop
07/01/2021 6:14 pm
Valued Member
LeatherHawk's Avatar
United States
82 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LeatherHawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But is it an actual remnant, or was it clipped with clippers? If you look at the 4th photo, you can actually see the clipper mark. At least, that's what it looks like to me.
Edited by LeatherHawk
07/01/2021 6:25 pm
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Spence's Avatar
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34398 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@leather, throughout the history of coins, there are multiple examples of coins being divided to make multiple pieces of smaller denominations. I'm not saying that this is what you have here though as I think most of the time the division was more regular (e.g. cut in half or quarters).
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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 Posted 07/01/2021  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add travelcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin looks to be silver, the outside is just patina.
Roman - I'd say no as well.
Clipped - I'd say yes.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16817 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't tell what kind of coin it used to be - I'm pretty sure it's not Roman - but I can say that the cutting/clipping is modern. If I had to guess, it was cut up by the finder, who wanted to know what metal it was made of.

Either that, or someone was making some "pirate jewellery" and the coin was too round for their artistic taste, so they hacked it up a little to make it look piratey.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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LeatherHawk's Avatar
United States
82 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  9:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LeatherHawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is how I obtained this thing. Needless to say, I"m about to have a conversation with these people/person. This isn't the only jacked coin. Thanks to all of you for your help.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3842432596...m41214.l9765
Edited by LeatherHawk
07/01/2021 10:04 pm
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dajones's Avatar
United States
13 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2021  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dajones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the below is IMO and for entertainment purposes only (meaning I'm not in the mood for future flak from some angry ebay seller...)

Two observations lead me to the same theory/conclusion (and you are now the sad beneficiary of a running interior type-a-logue; sorry):
(1) The pic you posted shows that the flip had been opened and then reclosed (b/c extra staple holes). My immediate thought was that someone took the Roman coin and replaced it with something unidentifiable (and probably not a "coin" at all). Hey, maybe the dealer's got a Romans-crazy kid...
(2) I then stalked the ebay page:
Only one Roman coin is listed, "9) Ancient Roman Coin from approximately 330 AD" [Ed. note: more properly "AD 330," but, whatever, Western Civ. is doomed anyway.]
That coin is in the ebay pic (second down from the left in the coin array), and it's fairly obvious that what you have is NOT what was in the auction. The coin shown in the auction pic is ROUNDish (and the little detail I can make out suggests a kinda chunky, imperfectly round/clipped object that could far more easily pass for a Roman coin than whatever you received).

In fact, right off the bat I thought it weird that the seller went out of his way to state "...with all coins in cardboard being replaced into new clean flips!"
(A) Why would *that* be necessary?
(B) Judging by the pic you posted, the "new clean flips" are not only, at best, no better than the originals (e.g., same old large magic marker scribble) but also, apparently, *worse*, e.g., handwriting is messier, staples hastily placed, extra staple holes and staple scrapings: Oh, and maybe a coin switcheroo or two! (I'd check your others.)
[--adding a (C), which I thought of at the end of my thought process below: "New clean flips" might give a less-than-perfectly-scrupulous person "plausible deniability." When YOU say "Dude, look! It's different from the pic!"; HE says "What you are holding is clearly not the same as was in the pic: Different color ink AND it's clearly been opened/resealed. Are you trying to SCAM ME?!?"
--Of course, I'm a cynical old fart, so surely that isn't what's going on here, nor would it be SOP for someone who, even if not necessarily dishonest, might prefer to keep unhappy customers at bay.]

Last observations: The seller's negative/neutral feedback show "bait & switch" as a common theme, but it seems many of those auctions (or at least the one's he forgot to mark "private," another red flag in certain circumstances) have generic photos and a "you will receive a random selection from" blah blah disclaimer.

Your case is a little different in that it states "You will receive EVERYTHING in the photograph."

I can imagine one of three responses when you inquire:
(1) Honest mistake: Seller sends coin or partial refund.
(2) Seller blows you off.
(3) Seller says "Oh, well, OK, send it back--at your expense--and we'll refund you." In this (most likely) case, the seller either (A) is pretty sure it's not worth your trouble/expense to send it back, (B) refunds your money 'cause the Roman he kept is sufficiently valuable that he doesn't give a flyin', or (C) has you return the lot and doesn't refund your money (and ebay steps in). Either way you ain't gettin' no Roman coin.

All the above is IMO and for entertainment purposes only.

Final addenda (I I mean it this time!): I don't mean to harsh--for all I know you may be lovin' that Wolverine (and I know *nothing* about comic books)--but I haven't seen much of anything among those flips.

For example, I would love to see the "BUFFALO BU 5¢" up close. I'mma guess it's a 2005 Jefferson and not of the same era as the actual Buffalo below it, yeah?
I can't read the name but I'mma guess the "slabbed" coins are Int'l Numismatic Bureau (not the "most trusted name in third-party grading"). Also, a couple of 'em look... empty?

Again, not tryin' to harsh your mellow: I know nothing about stamps, FDCs, foreign paper money, baseball cards, dice, or matchbooks. I'm hoping you love the totality of the lot you got! As for the coins, though, I now truly wonder whether the Roman coin was the single item with appreciable value.

Hey, it's always nice to have a Liberty nickel or a Buffalo rollin' around on your shelf. Steel cents are fun. And who doesn't love to pinch some Vulcan bun on the 50 lire, amiright?

If I've hurt your feelings or diminished the pleasure of your treasure (for which I will apologize)--then share here your upcoming conversation with the seller, and if he meets any of the less-than-honorable expectations I've outlined above--and as a consolation prize for having read this far--I'll mail you some interesting wheat pennies and something in your as-of-yet undisclosed area of numismatic interest, maybe a [suggestions deleted: I'll leave it to you to indicate what you find interesting, if it comes to that].

Good luck!
Edited by dajones
07/02/2021 12:37 am
Valued Member
LeatherHawk's Avatar
United States
82 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2021  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LeatherHawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@dajones I opened the 2x2 to get better pictures. When I sent a pic with another coin in the 2x2, I was told to take the coins out in the future before taking pics. I was trying to avoid taking it out but knew that I would be told to take it out for pics. Kind of a no-win situation for me in this case.
And you are correct about the Buffalo BU, it is the 2005 P version of it. The actual Buffalo nickel between 1913-1938, is actually a no-date nickel. There is a pic of it in the US Colonial forum. The Liberty nickel is in sad shape, but it's the first one I have, so it will do for now.

Edited to add.....
This was my email to the seller...

New message to: estatebureau
Hello. I received this today and have been going through it. I have found a few questionable items that I hope you can resolve for me before I post any feedback.

In the description, it says I will receive 14 BU coins between 19959-2004. I received 9.

In the description, it says I will receive 3 loose foreign coins. I received 2.

In the description, it says I will receive a Buffalo nickel dated between 1913-1938. I believe that this nickel is from the correct time period, however, there is no date on it at all. It looks as if someone tried to get the date to show by using Nic-a-Date and it didn't not work.

In the description, it says I will receive 7 Wheat cents. I got all of them, but one has heave damage on the reverse side. I'm talking huge gashes.

And finally, In the description, it says I will receive Ancient Roman Coin from approximately 330 AD. What I received has been cut and has no markers to show that it is, in fact, a Roman coin. Of all the errors this order has, this is the one that most upsets me. The description doesn't say, part of an ancient Roman coin. It says a Roman coin.

IS there anything that can be done to fix these errors please?
A lot of the coins are decent, ones I don't have, as I'm rebuilding my collection as my last collection was stolen a few years back.
And thank you so much for your input. It is greatly appreciated!
Edited by LeatherHawk
07/02/2021 01:13 am
Valued Member
LeatherHawk's Avatar
United States
82 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2021  11:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LeatherHawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Update..... I received an email back and was told I could either send it back or receive a partial refund. I asked how much the refund would be and was offered $10. I paid $26. I'm going to take it and the loss of coins I didn't get as well as not purchase from this person again.

Now, I want a Roman coin thanks to this to compare to what I got. The search is on!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1120 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2021  09:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add travelcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you want a Roman Coin, for the most part, they are inexpensive. Try the " ebay /CCF Member Sales" link on the left. I've bought from these sellers before.
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dajones's Avatar
United States
13 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2021  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dajones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Glad you got the partial refund! PM me here (does this site have that?) or via ebay (same username) and I'll see if I can't scrounge up something from my box of mis-spent youth.
Edited by dajones
07/11/2021 11:32 pm
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