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Are Differences In The Orientation Of Edge Writing Collected?

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Australia
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 Posted 07/07/2021  5:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Maybe a philosophical question here but I noticed that the Numista entry for French 1974-1987 10 Francs lists the differences in the orientation of the edge text as varieties.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces683.html
This is not the case with the infamous UK 1 pound coins.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1387.html

I know each country has different referees and I would not consider this a variety in the true sense of differing dies but am curious to know the percentage of collectors who try to have each type in their collection as opposed to those who don't care what the orientation of the writing.
Edited by David Graham
07/07/2021 5:44 pm
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2021  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It depends on the method of manufacture. For the 1 pound coins, the edge lettering is added via a separate process, after the coin is struck; the orientation is random.

For other coins, the edge lettering is imparted by the collar die, when the coin is struck. This is certainly true of earlier edge lettering examples, such as British crowns. In this case, there is (usually) an "intended orientation", which is more common, and an "error orientation" which resulted from the collar die being inserted upside down.

I do not know which is the case for the French coins.

As for the direct question: no, I don't collect edge varieties, even when such things are denoted in the catalogues. I should perhaps say that I don't actively seek them out. If I happen to obtain two examples of the same coin, and it turns out that they have "different orientations" and the catalogue gives separate entries for them, then I will keep them both. Otherwise, "it's a duplicate", and I will only keep the higher grade example.

The biggest problem with collecting edge orientations, for me at least, would be display. My "good coins" are all in 2x2s, which tend to obscure edge engravings.
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NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
17890 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2021  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
David - the 1974-1987 French 10-franc coins are just like the UK pound coins: the edge inscription was applied to the blanks before striking, so its orientation is completely random. I was studying in France when these coins started circulating and there were rumours at the time that coins with the inscription one way up were forgeries or errors: these were quashed by an official announcement by the Monnaie de Paris explaining how the coins were struck.

I've lived for a period in both France and Spain, and I've found that collectors in both countries often save an example of 'obverse up' and 'reverse up' for any coin with an incuse edge inscription, whereas British collectors generally do not. I personally don't save both: after all, since the inscription can start in any position in relation to a specific detail on the obverse or reverse, the number of variations for each coin is infinite!
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 Posted 07/07/2021  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the replies Sap and NumisRob. Very informative.
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 07/07/2021  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
since the inscription can start in any position in relation to a specific detail on the obverse or reverse
...for round coins, anyway. And IIRC even then there are a few cases where a particular starting point is intended and anything else is an error.
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Mr T's Avatar
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2021  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have many edge-inscribed coins but I don't seek out the different orientations either. I'm interested in varieties and I would call this an error (I suppose it falls under the category of upset die?).
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hokiefan_82's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 07/11/2021  11:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hokiefan_82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the Native American, Presidential and American Innovation U.S. dollars, the edge inscriptions can also be found in both orientations but similar to other coins already mentioned they're completely random because of the separate striking/edge-incusing steps.
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