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Help With Identification Of A Set Of 3 Coins - Coin 1

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bujub's Avatar
Switzerland
13 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2021  08:20 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bujub to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Dear all,

My father has a coin box with 3 ancient coins, we suppose they are from Andorra because in the coin box there is the coat of arms from Andorra.

We would like to know what coins they are and if they are legit.

Coin 1:
diameter: about 2cm
weight: about 3g


Help-With-Identification-Of-A-Set-Of-3-Coins---Coin-1
Help-With-Identification-Of-A-Set-Of-3-Coins---Coin-1

I found in the web that it could be a Florentine Florin? But why the connection to Andorra? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florin

I'll post the other coins in a separate post. Thank you very much for your help!
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2021  08:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
. I can't help but wait a bit and members in the know will help you.
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7936 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2021  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed, this is a medieval gold florin. As you have found out, they were minted in Florence Italy, starting in the 13th century, but also in other pars of Europe. As best I can tell, the closest places to Andorra that minted a florin which might have historical significance to Andorra are Barcelona, and Orange, France (quite a bit farther).

It could be authentic and clipped (which would fit the weight), or could be a replica. Because so much of the legend is missing, it might be hard to know.

If you know a jeweller who could test if it is gold, that would be helpful.

Edit: Looking more closely, I think I see a well-defined rim around part of the coin, which is more suggestive of a replica. The color also doesn't look right (even old gold normally looks ...gold), but that can be an artifact of the photo conditions.
Edited by tdziemia
07/11/2021 09:27 am
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34397 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2021  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@buj, first welcome to CCF. Second, can you please add a pic showing the edge of this coin? Thx.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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bujub's Avatar
Switzerland
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 Posted 07/11/2021  2:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bujub to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sorry for the lesser quality picture, it's not easy to take a good one from the edge. But if it is not enough I'll try with the better camera

Help-With-Identification-Of-A-Set-Of-3-Coins---Coin-1

Edited by bujub
07/11/2021 3:52 pm
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34397 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2021  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That pic is fine--you are right that getting a good view is difficult. I'm concerned about what might be a casting seam visible on the edge. I recommend bringing this piece to a local jeweler and have them *non-destructively* assess the metal to see if it is gold.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188130 Posts
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 Posted 07/12/2021  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7936 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2021  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion, this one is meant to be a florin of King Pedro of Aragon (1336-87), Valencia mint.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces124286.html
(in any event, the thread can be moved to the Ancients and Medieval forum with the other two since these florins were not minted after the 16th century)

While much of the lettering on both sides is missing, we can see the small tower mintmark to the left of St. John's halo. As best I can tell, it was only used during this reign, though maybe someone with a more extensive catalog can confirm that. Other mintmarks used on these flroins were a rosette for Barcelona, letter m for Mallorca, a helmet for Perpignan, and a crown for later reigns for Valencia. As this mark does not appear to be any of those, we come to Pedro's reign and Valencia by process of elimination, even though we can't read the legends (on the lily side we should have + ARAG from 2:00-5:00, then O REX P from 7:00-11:00).

A test of gold content will confirm if it is a replica like the other two. or might be authentic. The lettering (especially on the lily side) seems to me to be more crude than what was actually made at the time, based on the Numista photos and others which can be found with an internet search.

Edited by tdziemia
07/13/2021 08:42 am
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