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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,617 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6108 Posts |
I really don't know what I'm talking about with that title, but that's more or less what's on the paper that came with this coin. I assume it is some kind of counterfeit, but am looking for details as to what it is, when it was made, and anything else an expert might be able to add. I bought it for my counterfeit collection but can't find any details to be able to give it some kind of label. Thanks for any help in identifying it. Medal alignment, 23.30g, plain edge Paper listed it as: Switzerland - Zurich 1 1/2 Thaler 1559 DAV#8781 [different handwriting] counterfeit  
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5239 Posts |
A real one would weigh twice that. I could not find any 3/4 thaler coins. That being said I do not have a picture of a real one.
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Not my area, but I don't see any signs of casting. If genuine a nice looking coin.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6108 Posts |
Thanks, and it is a nice-looking coin. But like the others, I can't find anything that looks like this. There are coins with this obverse, and with this reverse, but not on the same coin. And then there is the weight, which seems totally odd. So who counterfeits a coin that doesn't exist? Thanks for the link, John, as I hadn't seen that page in my research on this thing.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7936 Posts |
Search under Dav. 8782 and you will find this coin.
I can find two die varieties, one of which is yours.
Of course, that doesn;t rule out its being a fake, but you would at least have a lot of company
Edited by tdziemia 10/31/2021 11:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6108 Posts |
Help me out just a little more please. I tried that on this forum and on full internet search. Can't come up with that number on a coin. Wikifacts doesn't list it and can't get any hits. Out of my zone here so maybe a link?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7936 Posts |
With a little more digging ... Here is a link where a coin that matches yours is called a Lauer counterfeit. I am not sure if this is the same Lauer as the family of Lauer in Nuremburg who was known for making tokens around the same time, but probably so. https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3266031In my opinion,these are also Lauer counterfeits: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3251429https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=567961Which probably makes these the real coin: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7744946https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=6120580I am not an expert on thalers, or on this coin, but if you start from the statement by the Rauch auction house about the Lauer fakes, then you can easily find more coins that match the Lauer fakes in the auction listing, and then find some examples that look different in several ways. If I am right, it means that PCGS and some auction houses of high repute were not able to identify the counterfeit as such. But we have been told on CCF that this is also the case with Spanish colonial counterfeits, so that would not be a big surprise. One thing I found interesting is that none of the auction listings for this coin give the weight. This struck me as fishy. We know thalers should be around 28 g., which makes yours suspicious from the get-go.
Edited by tdziemia 11/01/2021 09:06 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6108 Posts |
Thank you so much for that, as it seems to have been the answer. I followed your research, and after realizing that using the word "restrike" would get me where I wanted as well, learned a fair bit. So, to the best of my knowledge and based on an educated seller's listing, I think this is best labeled as Scheiz-Zurich Thaler 1559 Restrike by Lauer 19th Century. 23.3g.
I found a bit that noted these were made of white metal, not silver, and most of the ones I found came in pretty close in weight to the one I have. Also, along with a perfect die match to the Lauer restrikes, I learned that they actually came as jewelry, not a coin. That means they all originally had a clasp at 12:00, and sure enough, looking at the edge of my "coin" I found remnants of a clasp that had been sanded or filed off but still quite obvious.
So I think that closes the door on this one, which based on the one sale I could find with it correctly listed as a restrike makes it about a $40 item, and perfect for my counterfeit collection.
Thanks to all who commented and especially tdziemia for such valuable help.
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,617 |
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