First Time Crossing ICCS To PCGS (A Few Results)

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Author	Replies: 9 / Views: 3,034
jazzy Valued Member Canada 98 Posts	Posted 11/10/2021 2:05 pm A few months ago I sent 6 ICCS-graded coins (plus one raw coin) to PCGS, first time trying to cross any graded coins whatsoever. They were all older (silver-era) Elizabeth II pieces. I've seen a few threads on this topic in the past but I figured I would share some more results for those who are interested, since I just got them back now. Firstly, I sent the first coin I ever bought at an LCS, both because it's a nice coin and has sentimental value for getting me into the hobby. My 1966 25c came back MS65, which is a great grade, although that doesn't tell us much about the topic. Anyway, here are the actual results of the 6 crossed coins: 1962 1c: PCGS MS64RD (ICCS MS65RD) -- notably, ICCS recognized the "Missing M" variety, PCGS does not. 1953 10c, SF: PCGS MS65 (ICCS MS65) 1956 50c: PCGS MS63 (ICCS MS65) 1956 $1: PCGS PL66 (ICCS PL66) 1953 $1, NSF, FWL: PCGS MS64 (ICCS MS65) Finally, the one I'm most proud of: 1953 $1, NSF, SWL: PCGS MS65 (ICCS MS65) Notably, the ICCS holder didn't recognize either the FWL or SWL varieties here, only the NSF on the obverse. PCGS does, but only now. They didn't previously differentiate, which is annoying for the pop reports they maintain. It leads to a funny result when opening the coin in the PCGS app: They clearly have some sort of algorithm that guesses the value of the coin based on the grade and population--reminds me of the maccointrading seller on ebay As we all know the only way to assess the value of the coin is to look at what they sell for, and I believe that's what they probably attempt to do most of the time. That being said, MS65 is a stellar grade for this variety (and just in general) so I'm content enough with that coin alone to not regret sending them in. As for the few that downgraded, I got very good deals on all 7 coins to begin with, so I'm not all that disappointed, especially since two of the ICCS holders were falling apart and the seams starting to open up. Curious what you think, or have other experiences on the same thing. Edited by jazzy 11/10/2021 7:31 pm Report this Post to the Staff

okiecoiner Pillar of the Community Canada 5585 Posts	Posted 11/10/2021 3:36 pm Congrats! Report this Post to the Staff
spru Bedrock of the Community United States 12477 Posts	Posted 11/10/2021 3:48 pm Thanks for sharing! I have a few ICCS coins and will probably have more in the future, but I doubt I would ever try to cross them over. Still, it's good to know how they may fare. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024 Report this Post to the Staff
tripoli Pillar of the Community Canada 867 Posts	Posted 11/11/2021 1:39 pm @jazzy, I'm curious, did you send the ICCS coins to PCGS in their flips or did you cut off the ICCS grade first and sent them "raw?" Report this Post to the Staff
jazzy Valued Member Canada 98 Posts	Posted 11/11/2021 1:56 pm I send them raw and keep the paper in the ICCS flip. This is mainly for my own records, and also just in case I need to "prove" something related to the original grade ICCS gave it. I also have pictures of the coins when they were in the ICCS holders. Edited by jazzy 11/11/2021 1:57 pm Report this Post to the Staff
SPP-Ottawa Moderator Canada 10456 Posts	Posted 11/11/2021 3:21 pm I have done this for a number of coins. There are tons of discussions here how PCGS and ICCS grade differently, and a lot of the comments for circulated coins do not apply. For mint state coins, it gets trickier. ICCS values clean fields and is more forgiving of marks on the devices. PCGS sees the fields as the "background" to the design, and values clean devices much more than the fields. Strike quality (which includes Die Deterioration) is also something PCGS scrutinizes more closely. I have learned the hard way with MS-66 and MS-67 1-cent coins, coming back MS-64 and MS-65, simply because of a crappy strike. That is why it is so hard to get MS-65 on 1970 to 1972 nickel dollars (they are all weakly struck). Eye appeal matters, but you rarely get the grade bump for this, unless the coin is stunning. PCGS is really tough on Elizabeth II 1c coins. I have not sent in my 1961 and 1962 Missing M coins yet (both are in ICCS MS-66 holders) - but I do know that 1962 is a really tough year to get MS-66 grade with PCGS. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US My eBay store Report this Post to the Staff
jazzy Valued Member Canada 98 Posts	Posted 11/11/2021 4:12 pm Interesting about the 1c coins being tougher to get a good grade on with PCGS. Does this mainly have to do with the numerical grade? Or also the color? And what makes them different compared to silver for example? The differences in focus (fields vs devices) is also good to know for the future. I suppose a mark on the field might "pop out" more at first glance but, maybe, a mark on the devices is more natural -- if you dropped a perfect coin on a table 1,000 times, which would have more marks: the fields or devices? Edited by jazzy 11/11/2021 4:14 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Levaril Valued Member Canada 289 Posts	Posted 11/11/2021 5:03 pm It's also worth noting regarding pennies that what ICCS considers "Red" PCGS will often call RB as they basically mark it down to RB with almost any amount of browning, even relatively small areas. ICCS is much more forgiving in this and will call something red even if it is only 80% red, or even less. This means a sizeable percentage of ICCS red won't cross over as RD on PCGS holders. Report this Post to the Staff
jazzy Valued Member Canada 98 Posts	Posted 11/11/2021 5:18 pm Curious about proof-likes? Mine crossed equivalently. I know PCGS grades Proofs typically two points higher than ICCS. Can something similar be said about PL coins? And how about the "cameo" designations on those, has anyone compared? Report this Post to the Staff
SPP-Ottawa Moderator Canada 10456 Posts	Posted 11/12/2021 6:30 pm Quote: Curious about proof-likes? Mine crossed equivalently. I know PCGS grades Proofs typically two points higher than ICCS. Can something similar be said about PL coins? And how about the "cameo" designations on those, has anyone compared? Generally, ICCS is tougher on pre-1977 Proof-like strike, because they rarely grade anything PL-68. ICCS is definitely more liberal with the cameo designation, as they have three distinct levels to describe cameo coins (C, HC, UHC) and only consider the obverse. For a coin to get the 'cameo' designation with PCGS, both sides have to have very strong cameos. Almost all of my PL coins with ICCS Ultra Heavy Cameo grades came back as CAM from PCGS. It is much, much tougher to get a Deep Cameo designation from PCGS on PL and specimen strikes. Of all the PL 1c coins I have submitted in the past two years, I have only gotten two Deep Cameo attributions, and as far as I know for the 1c series- they are the only two: https://www.PCGS.com/cert/37951073 https://www.PCGS.com/cert/42651263 It is even tougher getting nickel composition coins with the Cameo attribution from PCGS - this is my only one: https://www.PCGS.com/cert/83461005 "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US My eBay store Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 9 / Views: 3,034

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

All Forums Category: Canadian Coins and Currency Forums Forum: Canadian Coins and Colonial Tokens

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

View Last 100 New Topics

View Last 100 Active Topics

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.41 seconds to rattle this change.