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 Replies: 9 / Views: 937 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
I know discussing money is considered vulgar and that particularly in the ancient coin section we are more concerned with history than the commoditisation of our collectibles but I thought I would enquire people opinions of whats going on in the market currently. In the UK where I reside certain fields of collection (wristwatches for example) have been starved with lack of supply that have seen prices rise. American banknotes are for example in very short supply since they are being taxed 20% import duty (incorrectly!) By ebay and dealers here seem empty handed. A large number of people stuck at home but with pockets full due to various relief programs and money printing seem to have returned to old fashioned stay at home hobbies such as their collections. I personally have been toying with the idea of emigration to non-English speaking lands though the practicality of moving all my worldly goods across multiple borders have made me consider what I should think about liquidating and how. Aside from seeing precisely what drew me to my ancients (I don't seem to have a bad coin... they are all stunning) I had a brief session seeing what they are going for on v-coins. I bought most of mine on vcoins 10 years back and it seems like values have risen for the more desirable types. I wonder if the is a trend set to continue with the inflation of money supply or is more about the current trend. How quickly are things selling at the moment and what sort of rake off the dealers would charge on a consignment and whether auction or a dealer (sale or return basis) would be my best option. I can't say my mind is really made up yet... there are many factors to consider and I won't rush any decisions... though if I am living in a different country having a coin collection sitting in this one wouldn't be as useful as having money in my pocket. Do you guys ever value your coins and do you think you see monetary appreciation in your collections or do you try not even to look at the finances given most of us are not dealers or even flippers... we buy what we like mainly. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts |
I think there's nothing wrong with discussing the financial aspect of a hobby.
When I started collecting ancients, I decided to sell my collection of modern American coins and use that to fund my new interest. What I found is that I lost money on most purchases: the common, low-mid grade coins did not hold their value - even after 40 years. A few did, but these tended to be high-grade rarities.
Over the past 8 years of collecting ancients I'm noticing the same thing. Most of the common, low-grade denarii I started with are selling for less than I paid for them. There are only a few rarities that I've stretched to afford that seem to be holding their value (e.g. Caesar elephant, my Domna consecratio).
I think in the end collecting costs money unless you specialize in a few rare, high-value pieces.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts |
Those who bought good quality ancient coins 10-20 years ago have seen higher values. It's like collecting other things, best quality usually has higher future value, be it collectable cars, art, modern coins, etc. My cheap common ancient coins have not appreciated much if at all in the last 20 years. I collected them because I enjoy it. My better coins have gone up in value. I don't collect for profit, it's for pleasure. My mutual funds have appreciated more than my coins over the years.
There are many more collectors of modern coins than ancients. Common ancient coins may be worth less now because there are fewer collecting low grade ancients, people paid too much when they bought them or just the wholesale versus retail price. For best condition ancient coins I think the market is healthy like modern coins, high prices for the best of the best.
Edited by livingwater
12/13/2021 07:59 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5238 Posts |
I don't think a whole lot about the value of my collection. More precisely, I thought about it years ago and realized that aside from Gold and silver I would not break even because most of my collection is common world coins. This is a thin market and would sell to a dealer for at most 50% of retail, or require a lot of work selling on ebay. Most of my ancients would fall in the same category, being bought for interest rather than for resale. None of this bothers me. |
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
Quote:I don't think a whole lot about the value of my collection. More precisely, I thought about it years ago and realized that aside from Gold and silver I would not break even because most of my collection is common world coins. This is a thin market and would sell to a dealer for at most 50% of retail, or require a lot of work selling on ebay. Most of my ancients would fall in the same category, being bought for interest rather than for resale. None of this bothers me.  (In my case, even with the silver I would not break even, because most of my silver was bought either for marked-up numismatic value, or at the top of the April 2011 panic. I don't have any gold, and I don't currently intend to buy any until/unless the prices get a good deal lower.) There are probably a few ancients I have (likely more than the world coins) that I could probably sell for more than I paid if I really wanted to - but only because I paid that little (often less than $2 per coin). I'm not interested in selling, though, and anyway it would probably require more hassle than it's worth. Edited by january1may
12/13/2021 08:12 am
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
725 Posts |
Most collectors talk of the current market as very strong. But when you look at individual coins where you can see the sale history over the last 15 years, the prices are mixed, even for rare coins. I've paid double what someone else paid 5 or 6 years ago for some of my coins, but for others I've paid half. Quite often the prices are very similar. In an auction, you might have only 2 or 3 people interested in a given coin, so the price can go anywhere.
One thing about ancients is that there is an ever increasing supply. The popularity of metal detecting has grown to a point where plenty of coins are being unearthed every year. So if the number of collectors increased 30% in the pandemic, but there have been 30% more coins unearthed in the last decade, the price won't have changed. At some point we'll run out of new hoards, but who knows when.
Trying to get what you paid is also going to depend on what price you're comparing. The cost of buying and selling makes a huge difference. If I bought a coin for £100, I likely paid the auction house £20, the bank transfer/exchange fees of £5, the tax of £5 and £5 to get it delivered. The actual coin was only worth £65. When I sell it again, I lose £35 straight away.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
Quote:
One thing about ancients is that there is an ever increasing supply. The popularity of metal detecting has grown to a point where plenty of coins are being unearthed every year. So if the number of collectors increased 30% in the pandemic, but there have been 30% more coins unearthed in the last decade, the price won't have changed. At some point we'll run out of new hoards, but who knows when. Some of this is counteracted by the ongoing restrictions regarding "cultural heritage", whereas the governments of many of the countries in prime ancient coin territory are firmly of the opinion that ancient coins belong in museums (and/or in the ground) and nowhere else. In practice this means that the coins get out by straight-up black market smuggling instead, but the supply is lower and the prices are higher, and you might not necessarily be able to just walk into a coin store and buy one of those types even if they are found by the thousands in their homeland. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts |
Quote:
Some of this is counteracted by the ongoing restrictions regarding "cultural Heritage", whereas the governments of many of the countries in prime ancient coin territory are firmly of the opinion that ancient coins belong in museums (and/or in the ground) and nowhere else. I've been raising this topic with other collectors because I've run into some people who have moral issues with our hobby. Maybe it's the times we live in, where everything and anything has been politicized, but we have to be aware of the ongoing effort of some countries, like Greece and Italy, to end our hobby. While this attitude hasn't hurt values, it surely hasn't helped either - especially with new members. |
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CCF Advertiser
 United States
1303 Posts |
This quote, from the Bloomberg Article that came online in the last 24 hours talks, about some tips for handling inflation for working people. (Which is my way of saying hold on to your hats for everyone in every collectors field...) -->'In a high-inflation economy, money that sits in the bank is losing value. Each day, those $100 on deposit buy a little bit less. As a result, many Argentines spend their paychecks as soon as they receive them, carting away weeks worth of groceries in a single shopping trip, even if some of it - excess meat, chicken, fish - will sit in the freezer for months. 'The practical application of this technique in the U.S., where inflation isn't quite high enough to warrant such a mad pay-day dash, is to expedite plans to buy big-ticket items - appliances, bicycles, furniture. If you have the money to pay for that sofa now, do it.' <-- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ed-americans |
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Valued Member
Germany
141 Posts |
Hi David, pleasure I certainly do not belong to any privileged circle where talking about money is considered too mundane an affair  I also have the same concerns as you and I am not shy to discuss them with my fellow colleagues and friends who also share this passion. The coin market has indeed changed when compared to ten (or even five) years ago. More often than not, I find that the prices I had in mind for coin types I've been familiar with for so many years are totally outdated. Also, lots of coins I add to my watchlists are being sold pretty fast, to my disappointment. However, I believe these last two years of pandemic require a different analysis than the rest. The lack of coin shows and events, millions of people in lockdown at their houses buying in online platforms and the global purchasing power surely affected the market and caused a rise in demand. As to my collection... I do not buy as investment, I do not try to make any profit whatsoever, but I surely put a lot of effort in trying to buy the best I can at the best prices. I don't believe I have lost much money this way, but what I fear the most are laws or regulations against the ancient coin market which might appear in a distant (or not-so-distant) future. As to your concern... I do not like to give advice but I believe that if you really wish to sell a large number of high quality coins and you do have a deadline, the best option would be to put them in a well established international auction house. Perhaps in such case you still would like to keep the best coins or the ones that give you more pleasure to owm. Best, Edited by DirtyHarry
12/20/2021 4:43 pm
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Replies: 9 / Views: 937 |
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Posted 12/13/2021 07:36 am
