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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,320 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5318 Posts |
I've read a lot of interesting comments from the buyer's perspective, and now I'll throw out a few observations from the perspective of sellers. A lot of this is going to sound very obvious, but you might be surprised how many people just don't get it. In fact, many coin dealers don't get all these either. Rewind to that "dark alley" scene above, which happens to be from one of my favorite action films, Ronin. If you ever see this film, pay close attention to that scene because I think it nails what not to do when two strangers come together to do business. That scene is a long chain of stupid moves that ends in unmitigated disaster. So how do sellers mess up? Here are a few possible scenarios: Unclear, missing, or inaccurate information for the item being sold. If your buyers get confused often or repeat similar questions, you might need to be more informative about your items. Can the buyer easily judge the coin's grade and other features from the photo? If not, time to upgrade from your cell phone.  Once engaged by a possible buyer, changing the terms of the sale such as agreed price, shipping costs, or even the item itself. This is commonly referred to as "bait and switch"-- never a good thing. Bringing in another person the buyer must deal with, which can only add to their confusion. This is a red flag for a lot of people, as we know con games often involve tactics to keep "the mark" off-balance. Worry a buyer, lose a sale--it's that easy. Changing locations. If you've identified yourself as living in Denver, but tell the buyer to send money to Miami, do you think they won't be worried? Thinking you can pull anything on the buyer. Providing exaggerated descriptions or trying to force a quick decision indicates to me there's a problem with what you offer. Sales professionals use these tactics all the time, but it's simply bad business, and suggests they really don't believe in their product. On the other hand, sellers who consider the buyer's interests upfront will naturally have more favorable results. Unless you're running a scam, it's in your favor to: Accurately describe and picture the item. The more the buyer knows up front, the less surprise or disappointment. If you need fuzzy photos to make a sale, that might indicate something. Once contacted by a buyer, give them all the info they need regarding final price and shipping costs so they can decide quickly, pay, and receive the item satisfied. Most likely, they will bother you less for information during the deal. Be consistent from beginning to end. If you find yourself changing your story through the transaction, you're simply lazy and haven't given it enough thought. Keep the buyer in the loop at all times: tell them when the money was received, when the item was shipped, and get their feedback when the transaction has been completed. How many coin sellers conduct satisfaction surveys?  They'll learn something if they do. The final clincher to me: if you have a good item to sell with real value to the buyer, you're more inclined to be transparent throughout the transaction. Good coins, products, etc. are sold by objectivity, which most buyers recognize immediately. 
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
From another sellers perspective. I have found for the most part that coin folks are almost always good folks. I have had only one problem (on ebay) but this was a coin I had purchased and the seller did not want to follow through with the transaction. I have been selling coins on ebay since 1997 and have had very positive experiences. I tend to keep my transactions limited to U.S. and Canada only but have shipped overseas with the precautions in place. I do recall a comic book I sold to a guy in Italy that stated he never received the comic. Without insurance or tracking, I had no way to tell weather he was telling the truth or not. He seemed shady but what can I do. I had to refund his $$. Now, I safeguard all my transactions by stating out of the U.S. shipping requires insurance and delivery confirmation mandatory.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Nothing about the Internet has changed the basic virtue of the human race. 99.5% of us are decent, moral people who would never willingly allow a deal to go wrong. What the Internet has done is to give the other 0.5% a broader audience, and now they seem disproportionately numerous to paranoids like myself. I can look back at almost 400 ebay transactions, and hundreds more at other fora, none of which caused the slightest stress. And when I mention the large number of scams I had to deal with in my last Moderator's position, it must be remembered that the forum had over 75,000 members. It is not difficult to protect yourself in an online transaction - it's just not automatic. Effort is required.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5318 Posts |
I'm glad I started this topic.  There are a lot of interesting points made which I'll someday incorporate in an article on the subject. I admit I've belabored over these details because the general subject of business has been on my mind a lot recently, where I'm using coin sales simply as one example. I suppose this is my way--I dice and slice information until I make some sense from it. Here, I went so far as to resell coins as a case study to answer this question: can coins be sold in a way to provide both high value and a high level of service to collectors, while also providing a nice margin to the seller? The answer is yes: I always sold coins below CV to collectors here, while providing myself a nice margin (sometimes as much as 100%). Everyone won here--and everyone was happy.  I even conducted a buyer satisfaction survey to be sure, so I'm simply not running on self-praise. Do I think most people are decent and moral? Of course--but if ebay is any indication, many coin sellers are a little misinformed as to the most effective way to conduct their business. Then a few others are simply frauds or deliberate hacks. Based on what I've seen, I would not conduct business with 60% of sellers there because they have such a lazy attitude toward transactions. In a more general sense, it is my distinct impression that in the coming years, business will face acute challenges where old methods simply no longer work. Currently, there are a host of lazy assumptions about the customer, a lack of objectivity/transparency, and ultimately poor response to customer's needs originating at the product/service level. This calls for critical analysis and response--if we are to survive economically. And many people who peddle coins are working from assumptions akin to "groupthink", which really hampers a constructive transition. I suppose that's the real gist of me starting this topic, from the microcosm of coins to the macro of business in America. Thanks again for your thoughts! 
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
Quote: Nothing about the Internet has changed the basic virtue of the human race. 99.5% of us are decent, moral people who would never willingly allow a deal to go wrong That's the point I was trying to convey in my post. Like SuperDave stated, It's not difficult to protect yourself with online transactions, it just requires effort in all aspects. I just payed Paypal for a coin I purchased on ebay. The seller is in Canada and I'm in California. This seller has 100% positive feedback which is a huge plus with me, especially if he has been on ebay for awhile or has huge transaction history. I am sure I'll get the coin soon unless of course the post office loses it 
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Geeze this an interesting question as I sit here and wait for a coin from china ,LOL its true . I have searched high and low for this particular Mexican 20 centavo variety and found one affordable even with shipping from a seller in china , now is that a normal thing for me , not a chance , I have my sellers who I have done business with some of them many transactions that I hold dear for ebay coins . and having said that one of the best ways to ensure a good transaction is to find a few good sellers that cover your interest and stick with them . I know that some of the deals I do on the forum , I will not hesitate a second to send cash and often do I have not been let down yet by a forum member , but I do know that it has happened .
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Valued Member
Canada
464 Posts |
Specifically with respect to ebay, you should: 1) I think the important thing to do on ebay is to actually read the negative feedback comments. I have seen people posting negative feedback because their item took a day longer to ship, which I personally wouldn't bother me. 2) If the seller has a description/blurb about who they are and what they sell, check to see if the items they are offering are consistent with that description. Also, be aware of their location. If you find someone who usually sells kitchen appliances in Turkey, offering to sell uncirculated silver maple rolls, it would be wise to ask a few questions. Also keep in mind that ebay is for everyone, and not just specialty stores. You will encounter individuals wanting to sell what they found while cleaning out their basements. 3) This is the most important point. Read the item description, shipping info carefully, BEFORE even looking at the photos! Look out for deceptive language like "Silver-ed", or "(leaf) silver/gold". Ask yourself, what info do you have, and what is missing? How much of the text is actually dedicated to the actual item? If it sounds ok, look at the photo, and compare the information you read to the photo. 4) Learn the coverage policy offerred by the payment processing system you are using. I personally process all of my payments through paypal within the paypal insurance limit. If worse comes to worse, you can always call up paypay or your credit card company and report the transaction and not lose any money. 5) Don't buy from people who are claiming to sell items which belonged to dead family members. I usually find these auctions to be exaggerated, and misleading. 6) Don't buy items of high value online. If I was able to fork out $10,000 on a coin, I would want to analyze it in my hand before purchasing. That is unless I was buying directly from the mint. If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
Make sure you get scans of both sides of the coin. I kind of got screwed with a 1831 capped bust dime. It was pretty cheap and look VG to VG+ on the obs, but the reverse was G ish (maybe AG if you are super strict) due to some very weird wear (there was no scan of the reverse). I think the gray sheet on it in G is like $25, and I got it below that. Yet, I wanted a VG dime and still don't really have one. I will likely be selling this one at some point, but I won't screw the next person like I was screwed.
-SWUSC
Edited by sfwusc 01/25/2009 10:32 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
1361 Posts |
For me the most scary part is mailing, niether the seller nor the buyer has control over it.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Agreed with keeping terms the same. I got a little annoyed at this recently. On something I won, I asked the seller if I could opt out of the expensive $6 insured shipping since the coin was cheap (beforehand) and she said yes. Then once I won, she told me I'd have to have it shipped insured anyway. I've also had experiences with fuzzy photos. Not all have been bad, one wasn't that great though. But I didn't pay that much for it, so I came out okay. In my latest case, which actually hasn't panned out yet, what I did was ask the seller for new photos first. He took new ones, which were terrible. I expressed my sentiments and told him if he wanted me to make a bid, he'd have to offer a return policy because I don't buy blind, even on PCGS coins. He protested a little bit but eventually conceded once I reasonably explained to him that I hadn't always had a good experience buying blind, and wouldn't bother returning it as long as it was decent for the grade and as described. Doing things like this can give you a BIG advantage especially given that so many buyers have poor social skills and aren't that good at working things out beforehand. Many of my questions to sellers have been answered in all caps or even rudely which kind of drives home the point (if someone is rude in response to your nice question, they probably have something to hide, don't buy from them). Remember, if someone "doesn't have" a return policy, 75% of the time they just didn't bother noting it. 20% of the time they will refuse returns outright but the other 5, they might budge if you convince them that you're not a jerk buyer who is going to ruin their feedback if something goes even slightly wrong. The coin was an 1891 Seated quarter in MS-63, with ring toning. It looks like no one else worked things out before hand, because I won the coin for $372. To give you an idea of what that is, a PCGS 63 recently went for $575 on heritage.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1840 Posts |
I can honestly say that I never worry about ebay transactions. I think that I mitigate the risk by using a credit card (usually through Paypal). If my coin is not delivered, I'm not paying for it. Unfortunately I've had to test this theory twice and things turned out in my favor both times. I think a I'd rather buy from a seller with a good return policy than high feedback. Seller feedback really doesn't mean much to me since some of the best deals on ebay are people that create an account to pawn an inherited collection. When it comes down to expensive coins, I typically stick to a few favorite sellers that are off ebay. Not because of trust, rather they always provide me with the best deals.
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Rest in Peace
 United States
1380 Posts |
Hi, new to forum but this is a topic I've worried about myself. I have bought maybe a hundred or so low value coins on ebay over the last two years and only had problems with proof sets, specifically silver sets. I received sets from three different sellers that had had the silver coins removed and replaced with clad proofs. All three sellers had almost perfect feedback ratings, two in the 800's and one in the 1400's (who has changed his seller id twice since then). No satisfaction from any of them, as with two I discovered the problem too late (when I noticed it on the third group, I carefully inspected earlier purchases)Lesson learned? Don't buy high value items sight unseen without a clear return policy.
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Rest in Peace
United States
2668 Posts |
WOW!
Something to be watched for. Thanks for the discovery.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,320 |
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