| Author |
 Replies: 16 / Views: 2,026 |
|
Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
I think my 1909-S VDB MS63 RB is ugly. I bought it 40 years ago when I had lots of cents ($$$) and not as much sense. Now I don't have any cents ($$$) for medical bills but do have enough sense to seek help! What's up with this coin? Is it a dog or am I just looking at it through a novice's eyes? The coin has been stored in a safe for most of its 40 years that I've owned it but the safe was in a metal barn subjected to 100+ degrees in the summer for the last 10 years. It was graded MS-63 RB in 2019 by NGC and I don't remember it looking quite like this. The current condition and grade couldn't have changed that much since 2019, could they? Any guidance you can give on why it looks this way and if that's normal would be helpful. Any thoughts on price impact when compared to other similarly graded coins will be great!! Thanks so much.  |
|
|
|
Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
 . IMHO, it is lacking eye appeal. John1  |
|
Moderator
United States
34409 Posts |
@1949, can you please also post a pic of the rev? Thx.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19154 Posts |
The copper is reacting (or has reacted) to environmental agents--no surprise there. Copper has a relatively high reactive nature to begin with. It's possible that high temperature storage may have accelerated the visual emergence of said reaction, even if it's in a holder kept in a safe. How would you describe the humidity in the steel shed? Were any gardening/landscaping-related chemicals in the shed as well? Looking forward to a photo of the reverse.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Reverse pic, please. Lacks eye appeal to me.  to the CCF! Edited by Coinfrog
02/11/2022 08:58 am
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19949 Posts |
We need to see both sides. The obverse looks like a 63, looks like a woody.
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
I wouldn't classify it as dog ugly but that heat probably did make it less appealing then the day you bought it . Reverse is definitely needed to tell anything . Right now I'll agree to 63RB .  |
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18663 Posts |
i agree with the storage comment as the possible cause of some oxidation. really need to see the reverse but I can see it technically at MS63RB however the value would be affected.
I'm wondering if it would be wise to send it in for conservancy so that it doesn't continue to degrade. I mean you are looking at something around a $2k coin.
as a side note its obverse die #4
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
56 Posts |
Sorry, I thought I'd uploaded both obverse and reverse but apparently the reverse didn't make it. Here it is...  |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Yeah that's what I was afraid of ; Even darker and blotchier than the obverse . |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Only you know what it looked like when it came back from NGC. I doubt the appearance could have deteriorated significantly in two years.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
Just a bit more info based on comments so far. 1. The coins in the safe were inside a large, 1 gallon, wide mouth, glass canning jar with a rubber seal. 2. The metal "shed" is actually a 5000 sf metal barn and yes, there are garden chemicals and petroleum products in there. We even park our cars in there. 3. Because of the jar, the humidity would have been fairly constant and equal to the ambient humidity on the last day the jar was opened. We're in the "Inland Empire" part of So. Calif. (high Desert) so humidity probably isn't much of a factor. 4. There were many other coins stored in the same jar including a 1902 Indian Head cent MS-66 RD. They are all problem free. A followup question. If a coin in this condition was submitted to NGC today, would it still be likely to grade as MS-63 RB? |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
do you normally photograph coins? Reason I ask is a lot of a picture has to do with the picture itself and the lighting and focus, coins, and through slab plastic, are incredibly fickle.
Does the coin actually look like this to the eye, or is it darker or lighter? I've a feeling the picture isn't totally representative of the coin as "true to eye".
humidity might not be a factor but condensation sure could be. When the hot air comes in contact with the cold glass, heat is transferred from the hot air to the cold glass. The loss of heat in the surrounding air causes the water vapor by the glass to lose energy. Once energy is lost, the water vapor condenses into liquid on the glass, if there is humidity in the jar before it was sealed, this can repeat over and over again each day. as it heats up, and when it cools off. the humidity inside has nowhere to go, sort of like how a terrarium bottle garden operates, cycles from liquid to vapor and back to liquid but on a small, small scale of the little bit trapped in the bottle.
on the other hand, you say you bought it 40 years ago, sent it for grading in 2019, and you don't remember it looking like that. Was it conserved before grading? did you submit it yourself, or through a coin shop, and would they have dipped it or something to make it pretty and now it's retoned ugly?
I don't think it's ugly, but I really don't think the pictures are doing it any justice either. reverse picture is blurry. the obverse image seems like it's got some plastic reflection above the date and Lincolns chin.
I think MS63RB is still very possible to happen, majority of copper coins fall in this category until they are heading toward majority chocolate...
PCGS designates Brown for copper coins that have less than 5% of their original mint red color.
PCGS designates Red and Brown for copper coins that grade MS60 or better and show between 5% and 95% of their original mint red color
PCGS designates Red for copper coins that grade MS60 or better and show 95% or more of their original mint red color
if they hold to what they say on their website, that coin still ahs a way to go before it gets designated Brown.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
Big-Kingdom-- Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. A number of the possible causes you brought up could have been true. :: The coin was purchased from, what I thought at the time, was a reputable coin shop. I was 20 something had a great job, no family, and was a newbie coin collector. There was no PCGS or NGC at the time and a newbie had to rely on the shop being knowledgeable and honest in their dealings. Well, 40 some years later as I had these coins professionally graded I found that the store I had purchased them from lacked one or both of those needed qualities. About 20% were "Details" coins. Anyway, it's quite possible that something was done before I purchased the coin. :: I'm familiar with condensation and how it works. You could be right. I didn't put any desiccant into the jar because I was afraid it might react with the coins. :: As an update on the coin, I had it listed on ebay for $2K+ and got a "buyer"! She had 6 transactions in the last 5 years and only 2 in the last year, all for children's clothing items. In a moment of extreme concern for this buyer in light of the unresolved condition of the coin I immediately canceled the transaction. Could she have been a scammer?   |
|
Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
Big Kingdom --
Missed addressing a couple of your comments in my last post.
I submitted the coin to NGC myself and the order did not have conservation included. Your question, however, prompted me to pull the receipt and I noticed that I had requested a "Photo Vision" that I'd forgotten about. I went to the NGC website, put in the cert # and low and behold, there was the coin's pictures from 2019. I think the coin looked much the same as it does today. Not the first time my memory has let me down. Darn getting old!
Now that I have those images I'll use them in my ad vs the ones I took with my cellphone. I know that I really have to improve my photos. That's a big factor in the price people will pay. My problem at the moment is just budget and know-how.
::
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19949 Posts |
That's a very nice coin, it needs no conservation and nobody in their right mind would attempt it.
IMO, 63RB is accurate.
|
| |
Replies: 16 / Views: 2,026 |
Posted 02/11/2022 06:41 am
