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Replies: 18 / Views: 2,590 |
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Valued Member
Canada
107 Posts |
The idea is to resolve this problem: How can I make my coins impossible to be stolen.
We all know, keeping coins, silver or gold, in our own place is risky, you never know when there would be a break-in. The risk increase together with the value of your coins increases. But keeping it in a box in the bank is also unrealistic. Space and fee limitation.
Then how can we secure our collection in a smarter way?
Meanwhile, NFT based digital asset seems a success. Artist can bind an NFT with his art piece to prove its ownership and hence becomes a popular merchandise in the era of blockchain.
Now here comes the idea, can we bind our coin with an NFT based certificate to prove its authenticity and ownership? The value of a given coin is not only in its physical form -- based metal, art design and historical meaning, but also in its authenticity and ownership history stored in blockchain? Moreover, the mintage of the binding coin is unchangeable once the NFT is issued. The mint cannot change the mintage of a hot coin. The transaction of the coin include its physical transaction, ship the coin to the next owner, but also the virtual transaction of its NFT certificate.
By such, bad guys cannot still your coins, at least not the full form. If someone sell a coin without its binding NFT, or if the binding NFT is not originally issued by the mint the buyer will know instantly, the coin is not really belong to the seller.
Just an idea, please feel free to give your opinion, the negative and positive.
Edited by zhuyuecai 03/21/2022 3:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
561 Posts |
I really couldn't ever see it taking hold, I think a lot of people appreciate the physicality of coins, the physical object is in front of you, no computers needed.
Also, a coin is already technically an 'NFT'. I think the issue with what you present is that requires full uptake of the NFT method across the entire hobby
We already have people that photograph their collections, get them authenticated, etc. Holding the NFT for your coin is another way to say it's yours, but a burglar couldn't care less, and an NFT of a coin without the coin won't get you your money back.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
The physical coin still needs to be somewhere. Where will that be?
Is a seller going to responsible for shipping & transfer of the NFT? Will additional handling charges be added for the time and hassle it takes to setup an NFT transfer? What if the buyer isn't and doesn't care to be 2022 with an NFT account? Would sellers limit their audience to only those who can accept an NFT too? What if they want the coin and not the NFT?
At the end of the day the coin itself and possessing the actual thing is what matters, no?
Edited by Collects82 03/21/2022 6:35 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4395 Posts |
Strong Disagree with absolutely every aspect of this.
So much I could say but one thought that sticks out in my mind is; "Great. Now that the 'bad guys' can't sell my coins for numismatic/historical value, they will just destroy them and melt them all down to sell for metal content."
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Moderator
 United States
34396 Posts |
@tan, I think that you bring up an interesting difference between many coins and digital images: the coins can have intrinsic value beyond the collectibility.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz
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Valued Member
United States
187 Posts |
Not a big fan of the concept myself but in today's crazy "NFT WORLD" I'm sure this will be explored (and exploited) some day in the near future !!!!
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Moderator
 Australia
16808 Posts |
NFTs aren't normally attached to physical objects - they are attached to digital objects, which are much easier to "steal" and replicate.
A coin, as a piece of money, is indeed "fungible", but as others have already pointed out, a collector coin in a slab is already "non-fungible token" - it has a unique code (the slab certificate number) which, when combined with an actual photo of the coin in the slab kept on the slabber's website and a "registry" of owners of slabbed coins, is as unique as a fingerprint.
Of course, keeping coins in slabs, using the Registry etc is all completely voluntary. Without some degree of compulsion (eg. somehow forcing all coin sellers to use them), any attempt at using such means as assurance of security for coin collectors is doomed to failure.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Valued Member
 Canada
107 Posts |
Let me try to answer all these questions. This kind of discussion is really inspiring and fascinating. Since this is a barnstorming, let's forget about the technical feasibility first. Hi @PNWType, a bit of context about the idea, it was for NCLT coins and perhaps circulated historical coins. The main issue for NCLT coins is, the market is small, but the mint keep pushing new design and new series every year, such that the second market value of NCLT coins is not stable and not guaranteed, most of those coins will be sold in auction by their base metal value. Adding the concept of NFT, could help pull in new people to the market, they might not like coins in the end, but they have a lot cryto, and need some thing to play around. They might eventually like coins hopefully. But this will definitely create a short wave of market boost. For historical coins, for me, its main issue is fake coins, I did some research on fake coins, they can fake physical coins, almost exact design, made old, fake slab, even the registry number could be fake, they just need one real, and use the same one again and again. More importantly, these coins are circulated coins, the cost to produce tons of them is very low. For experienced hobbies, they might be able to recognize the fakes by some subtle detail variance between years, by the feeling seeing the coins. But for beginner who mainly buy from the internet and can only see a photo before paying the money, it's really a big challenge for them. I speak for myself, after a year of study, I could barely tell which are fakes in ebay. Having a NFT, the issuer's account is published, impossible to duplicate, and impossible to fake. Let say the issuer is NGC, then unless it was some guys from NGC create the NFT, no other people can. By such, we can lower the barrier to enter the hobby. The physical form is important, but its virtual form is also valuable as well. Let's say, a given coin is pre-own by a famous scientist, a super star or a politician, this actually give an extra layer of historical value to the coins. Secondly, current way of feeling my coins is, hold it by hand, and check it with a microscope. Some people like this, I like this, but not all. imagine with metaverse, you have you own virtual house, you can enlarge your coin 100X, 1000X and put it in your favourite spot in the house and look at it just like it is a masterpiece painting. Or with augmented reality, with a light weight glass like apply glass which is to be produced, you can set your coin virtually some place in your physical house, when you put on your magic glass, you see the coin there, very large, spinning or not. when you take down the glass, nothing there. You no longer worry about bad guys know you have valuable coins and break-in. And at the same time, you can also hold your coin in your hand physically when you want. I know you prefer its physical form more than the virtual one. But there is no harm to create the virtual form for them right?
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Valued Member
 Canada
107 Posts |
Hi @Collects82, those are good questions. The idea is really a platform to facilitate the binding of NFT to physical coins and the system of transaction for such physical-virtual complete coins. Notice here, with the binding of NFT, a coin is represented by both its physical and virtual form. Lacking one of them means it is not the same coin. For example, a 100 years old gold coin pre-owned by MJ, just an imaginary example right ^-^, how the buyer knows this coin was owned by MJ once upon a time without its binding NFT which shows the full history of this coin? With only the physical coin, it is just a physical coin which worth $100 let's say, but together with its NFT showing its full ownership history, it may worth $1000. In this sense, a buyer only wants the physical one could go get a physical one for $100, but the seller of this particular coin would limit the buyers to those who value both the physical coin as well as its history. It was its history worth the premium. Same theory, why an MS state 1800s nickel (if it exists) worth much more than its base metal value? Its history!, Its scarcity. If you don't care about its history, bullion is the answer, if you appreciate its history, I don't see why you just want the physical one. In terms of extra fee for transaction. This is always the case, with or without NFT. Selling in ebay, 17% of nominal price goes to ebay, and shipping fees also counted as cost too, since the buyer pay nominal price + shipping fee to get the coin, for him, the cost of the coin is its nominal price + shipping. Even for free shipping deal, you really believe the shipping is free? In auction site such as Canadian numismatic company's auction, buyer pay another 17 to 20% of nominal price as transaction fee to the auctioneer + shipping. Adding NFT, sure will add more transaction fee for the NFT itself. But considering the extra potential value increase by the NFT, it may worth it. After all, you pay extra cost to get sth. more valuable, the question is does it worth it. It is possible to just get the NFT but not the physical coin, yes, perhaps. But for me, this is an experiment to combine physical stuff with virtual stuff. I don't like the idea of Metaverse and then the Matrix in the future, but I see it's coming no matter what. If we can have a method to combine physical world and virtual world, but not pure virtual, we might be able to change to steering wheel to a different direction. So I don't consider pure NFT transaction. A complete transaction should include two steps, ship the coin physically to the next owner, the next owner use the physical coin to validate the complete of NFT transaction. Without the physical coin, even you have the NFT, you cannot facilitate a transaction. Without the physical coin, you cannot complete the NFT transaction. When it comes to the transaction process design, only if we believe the idea is sth. worth a try, then we can discuss deeper, before that, we don't need to consider that too much.
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Valued Member
 Canada
107 Posts |
Hi @Sap, as I mentioned in the answer to @PNWType, faking the slap and the registry number is not that difficult, it is a well known problem, especially for circulated historical coins. NCLT is better, since the finish is different, and cost too much to fake, but still have fake NCLTs. NFT could help preventing counterfeit coins. Even you put a coin in a slab, but it could still be stolen, physically. With NFT, yes, as @Tanman2001's saying, bad guys could only melt and sell the coin as base metal :)
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Moderator
 Australia
16808 Posts |
Making a fake coin in a fake slab is indeed easy. Making a fake coin in a fake slab that looks identical to the coin in the picture on the slab-maker's website is much, much harder. Particularly for older coins. Matching toning and the distinctive location of dints, flaws and scratches is virtually impossible and I've never heard of a fake-maker going to that much trouble. I admit it doesn't apply as easily for modern NCLT in un-toned condition that usually lack such visible flaws and defects, though the fake-makers are rarely as good as a proper mint in making perfect, pristine-looking coins. In both cases, the fake-sellers tend to rely on blurry pictures of the slabbed coin, and hope that "people buy the slab, not the coin".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Valued Member
 Canada
107 Posts |
Exactly, there is always a way to recognize the fake. But for newbies, this is not that easy. You can put whatever available in the certification party's database to the NFT as part of the content. You can put more content to NFT, those content is impossible for current certification party to save in their platform. It is an enhancement of the slab certificate. And fore sure, more than just a certificate eventually.a week before, someone sells two fake NCLT gold coins in ebay. The bid for auction goes over $2000 until a member from CCF report to ebay and take out the deal. If we want the market to be bigger, then we need to lower the barrier to enter this hobby. A fake coin or fake slab could disappoint a newbie and keep him away forever. And adding more methods to appreciate the coin for sure will attract more people to join the hobby.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5393 Posts |
As long as there are blow torches and thieves completely unworkable . To a thief druggy a 1921 half is a piece of junk silver that buys a hit . Big coin robberies (ours included ) are almost never solved .
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Pillar of the Community
4628 Posts |
In my opinions NFT's are a massive con trick and scam. All they are is digital images and most are tasteless. All of this bling bling ape nonsense like showing a gorille or a monkey holding a Gushi bag or some nonsense.
Our news is full of stories of low quality NFTs and people paying like $65 million for a NFT selection signed by Bill Gates and another one on people being scammed with NFTS of some game.
I also consider the OP's Post a borderline spam one as its promoting NFTs. It also does not make very much sense and is full of spelling and grammar errors (And that is rich coming from me)
In general I suspect NFTs will be a fad that fades in a few years as digital technology moves on and people realise that they have poured huge sums of money into a bubble. Already some people can fake and reproduce NFTs and as for coins, what is slabbing and storing your coins securely whether at home or in a commercial vault for?
Edited by Princetane 03/23/2022 1:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2003 Posts |
In my opinion, you can keep your NFT's, Bitcoins, or any other form of fiat monopoly money. For me the only hard asset is having physical possession of the real deal.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
I would just dig a hole and bury my coins to keep them safe. I can't see this NFT thing with coins catching on. Me, a young kid who is supposed to know everything about software, am already overwhelmed by trying to read this discussion. I can't imagine what the old timers are feeling! 
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 2,590 |
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