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 Replies: 23 / Views: 3,045 |
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
This 1858 has issues. It is corroded on both sides and sometime in the past has been colorized to cover up the corrosion and make it look more pleasing. Besides that significant problem there are interesting aspects to the coin. The reverse has an obverse letter clash at L16-L15. Part of the letters GRAT can be seen between the leaves, vine and denticles. GR at L16 and AT at L15. The obverse has a serious planchet flaw from the R in VICTORIA to the upper lip as well as a "struck through" something or other at the D in CANADA. If you can identify the die pair and you have one, look for the clash on the reverse if your die cracking is of similar intensity on L13.     |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
Interesting Dan thanks for sharing I'll check I have a 1/2 dozen 58's
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1101 Posts |
Nice clash on that one Dan! I only have 8 1858's, but one of them is that die pair. Mine has the nice clear reverse clash of the lettering also. It's a little earlier die state with a lighter crack at leaf 13. Thanks for pointing it out!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5586 Posts |
I'll try to look at mine. What's the Turner number?
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1679 Posts |
Heres mine and I know its slightly different as the die crack on 13 is of the node and not between also die clash above her head. OF1- RB6 I be-leave.   Cheers Don
Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
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Valued Member
 United States
493 Posts |
Okie, the coin I put up is an RA3/OA2, Full vine, 16 stems.
Fourmac, agreed on your identification of your coin. You would think with the significant crack at the C in VICTORIA that the obverse you show wouldn't have much life left. I think there was another pair or two to go before it finally gave out.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
I have a couple of these coins in A.U. condition, both coins have the same markers on the Reverse but the Obverse neither coin has the marker through the R in Victoria but have the same markers in the D in Canada
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
papeldog, the marker from rim to lip through the R is a planchet flaw so I wouldn't expect yours to have it. I have a couple of others of this die pair and neither of them has it either, however one of them has a lamination between VICT and Vicky's face. :)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
Looking at both Reverse on my coins is a die crack through the D in Canada and the leaves through the D and another die crack at the A in Regina. Both coins also have a clash of a full leaf right at the end of the I in DEI
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
papeldog, yes on the leaf clash at IE and right of the E in DEI. Here is a shot of the D in a later die state without the 'struck through' issue. Also, a shot of the reverse from the same die pair, different coin. What do you think, Struck Through Grease or terminal die state?    Edited by dan-in-crystal-lake
04/27/2022 1:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5586 Posts |
I'd say grease. The ONE is affected as well.
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
okie, it's hard to tell from a photograph to be sure, but I think you are correct.
Having the coin in hand is certainly a benefit, but the question is not an easy one to answer.
The die looks to be in a state of collapse, but the cracking indicates a die state that is not as progressed as one documented by Rob Turner in his book 'The 1858 Cents of Provencial Canada'. This die has a bit further to go yet I think before it's terminal.
Okie, as you well know, collecting any given year by die and by die state can be an interesting study. Some of dies continued to hang on after significant cracking while others failed in spectacular fashion.
The obverse die that fourmack posted in this thread has what looks like a terminal crack at the C in VICTORIA yet it continued to produce coins for another couple of pairs of reverses before it finally gave up the ghost or was retired.
A challenging way to collect a given year is by variety and die state. You never know when you are done!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1222 Posts |
HI Dan, here's another one that has some weakness in the same area as yours as you can see it includes the "O" in ONE and the serif on the "E" in CENT as well as the "C" in CENT. I'm leaning towards a die collapse, die clogs generally don't migrate to other letters and I don't think they would allow a clog to progress to this state. The collapse may have started between the "C" in CENT and the "O" in ONE later progressing downward through the "C". Just an opinion but away I hope this die state can aid you. Cheers, Bill   |
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
Hounddog Bill,
Interesting, All of this from pictures is difficult to say the least. It looks to me like the die cracking on your coin is a bit more progressed then mine, but not by much. The reverses are very similar, particularly in the weakness of strike of the beads L3-7 and L10-14.
Although I didn't post a full obverse, the one you posted has exactly the same bead weakness under GRATIA, REGINA and the CT in VICTORIA.
I have a couple more of this pair in much earlier die states that don't show any weakness in the beads whatsoever. Could well be we are looking at the end state of each die.
I wonder if anyone else has a late stage crack progression for this pair they would be willing to put up?
Edited by dan-in-crystal-lake
04/30/2022 10:20 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
Dan + Bill I think this one is the same but the beginning of the die state maybe its just slightly fading obverse and reverse see what you think. Edit: this is the one with die crack at the A in Regina Pictures   Edited by papeldog
04/30/2022 10:48 am
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
papledog, I agree with your 'not quite as far along' assessment. The die chip at the D in CANADA hasn't progressed much yet and the large crack into the field from L10 to the 8 and around the E is not well defined if it's present. The beads are stronger on both sides of the coin. This is similar to a couple I have in earlier die states.
Nice coin btw!
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Replies: 23 / Views: 3,045 |
Posted 04/25/2022 12:27 pm
