Scientist? Evaluate These Storage Options

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 4,178
rggoodie Moderator United States 23503 Posts	Posted 02/07/2009 07:12 am I am getting a lot of email about these products being advertised internationally. If one of you science /chemical types can please evaluate them for the forum., we might save some people some money. Will the chemicals that these products are made from adversly affect the coins / banknotes that may be stored in them? What about the chemical reaction of the product with heat? All information below is copied from various advertisementson the web. Fire Proof/Resistant Storage bags Document Type and Number: United States Patent 3637000 Abstract: A fire-resistant bag for carrying valuable documents or money. The bag has a multilayer sidewall with plies which are separated by heat-insulating air spaces. Each ply includes a sheet of asbestos or similar heat-insulating material, and one ply has a metal-foil outer face for reflecting heat. A zipper closure is provided, and the zipper is protected from direct exposure to flame by multilayer lips or flaps on the bag which cover the zipper. Snap fasteners secure the zipper cover in place when the bag is closed. MMF Fire Guard Locking Courier Bag - Courier Bag - 18" x 18" - 7" Gusset - Cordura Plus - 1 Each - Burgundy Locking Courier Bag protects contents through vehicle fire. Multiply protection with rugged, water-resistant 1000 denier laminated Cordura shell outside and fire-resistant liner inside. Temperature rating is 1600 degrees Fahrenheit. Fire-Resistant Courier Sacs Designed to protect your original documents and valuable data in the event of an automobile or truck fire. Guards against fire damage until the contents can be safely retrieved. Laboratory tested to withstand high temperatures typical of automobile fires. Tough, durable multi-layer construction. Fire barrier core is a carbon layer with fibers that carbonize when exposed to intense heat or flame. combined with a rugged outer layer of ArcoDuck II™ or Cordura® Plus fabric. Arcolock-7® keeps bag contents secure. Fire-Resistant Nomex® Zipper Tape, developed for applications like firefighters' clothing, provides heat resistance along the zipper length. Available in Satchel or Briefcase Styles. On Briefcase style Arcolock-7® is shielded by fire barrier-lined flap. On Satchel style Arcolock-7® and zipper are shielded by fire barrier full flap. The BlazePak Fire Resistant Document Wallet. Billed as a cheaper alternative to a fire proof safe, this 40 x 30 cm pouch is water repellent and fire resistant to 400 degrees C. It's made of aluminised polyester backed with glass needlemat fibre, whatever that is. Do note the use of the word 'resistant', rather than 'proof', though, won't you? It's subtle but probably important if you're thinking about sticking your bearer bonds in one. Especially if you've got a wooden house. £29.95. This brand new fire resistant wallet is an exceptionally affordable and hassle free solution # Made of heat-reflective aluminised polyester backed with thermally-insulated glass needlemat fibre, Blazepak is water repellent, fire resistant to 400ºC and has undergone extensive testing in real fire situations here in the UK # Essential protection for wills, passports, birth and marriage certificates and, of course, your household insurance policy These legal-size fiberglass fire resistant document bags are a perfect way to add another layer of protection and safety to your most valued documents. Simply tuck your valuables inside the 9" x 14.5" fire-resistant bag. Many people slip the bag inside their safes, metal desk drawers or other logical locations for safe-keeping. Withstands heat up to 1000 degrees Fahrenheit! Great for the protection of vital documents such as deeds, passports, birth certificates, cash, degrees, family history, photos, etc. Report this Post to the Staff

Sap Moderator Australia 16826 Posts	Posted 02/07/2009 08:22 am There are two aspects to consider when using such a device to store your coins: 1) - Long-term storage under normal conditions - will the lining in the bag slowly exude noxious chemicals over many years, tarnishing or otherwise ruining any coins or notes inside? From what they state the bags are made of, then no, they shouldn't. It would depend on what types of plastics and plasticisers were used in the innermost lining - you'd have to ask. 2) - Actual effectiveness in preventing fire damage - will it perform as advertised? You'd need to buy a few test specimens and do some fieldwork, if you're not prepared to take the word of the scientist the company employed. I would point out the following: Quote: ...It's made of aluminised polyester backed with glass needlemat fibre, whatever that is... "Aluminised polyester" is simply plastic fibre that's been coated with aluminium, to reflect heat. "glass needlemat fibre" sounds to me like code for "artificial asbestos" - functioning in a similar fire-resisting way to real asbestos, only without the nasty bad press that asbestos has garnered over the past hald-century. Quote: Do note the use of the word 'resistant', rather than 'proof', though, won't you? In today's litigous age (especially in America), there's no such thing as "fireproof" anymore, because some idiot might get it into their head to store their valuables in a "fireproof" bag inside, say, an incinerator for a couple of years, and then sue the company for their losses because the bag wasn't "fireproof" under those conditions. So instead, we have "improved fire resistance". I think the constant mention of car and vehicle fires is significant - that's where these bags are designed to work in. A vehicle fire can indeed get very hot, but it's not going to burn for hours or days like a house fire might. The whole point of all those layers of insulation is to delay the transfer of heat from the fire outside to the contents inside. If the fire is hot but quick, the bags will do their job. If the fire is given enough time, even if relatively cool, no amount of insulation will help. The temperature will rise, and once it gets hot enough inside, paper would spontaneously ignite and coins would oxidise and char. Still, some protection is better than none. Certainly if you;re carrying super-valuable coins from place to place and want temporary fireproofing while in transit, one of those courier bad things might be just what you need. It seems to me that a more effective "fire resistance" could be obtained if you could also suck out all the air from inside the bag, or replace the air with an inert gas of some kind (such as argon). With no oxygen, even if the insulation fails and the temperature inside the bag rises, the paper won't catch fire and the coins won't char. Of course, if it gets really, really hot inside, the coins will start to melt, anyway... However, adding a fire-resistant vacuum/gas replacement system would make it very, very expensive. And it still wouldn't be "fireproof". Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis Report this Post to the Staff
rggoodie Moderator United States 23503 Posts	Posted 02/07/2009 09:04 am Searched the Web could not find who manufactured any of these rggoodie aka Richard "catch em doing something right" Report this Post to the Staff
MtnCoinMan Valued Member United States 462 Posts	Posted 02/07/2009 09:13 am http://www.arifkin.com/index.php?se...ewitem&idn=8 Report this Post to the Staff
rggoodie Moderator United States 23503 Posts	Posted 02/07/2009 09:47 am Thanks I saw that one but it is the document bags I worry about people purchasing Report this Post to the Staff
just carl Bedrock of the Community United States 20753 Posts	Posted 02/08/2009 8:00 pm Not sure of the purpose of those. Myself, I place most valuables in a banks safe deposit box. When transporting anything that could burn, I prefer a simple brief case. If I'm carrying something, I would have to be the thing on fire for anything to get burned. For around a house, I see no purpose in those things at all. Regardless of what you place things in, if a fire is intense enough, the heat will still do some damage. If for coins and they are in any plastic container, albums, etc the plastic will melt from the heat and do more damage to coins than the fire. So much depends on what is on fire, what is in the place that is on fire, how long the fire lasts, what your trying to protect. And then too, just how much does all that stuff cost? Report this Post to the Staff
snowman Pillar of the Community United States 1840 Posts	Posted 02/09/2009 3:23 pm Quote: Each ply includes a sheet of asbestos or similar heat-insulating material... This seems like reason enough to not buy this product. While it probably wouldn't be enough to hurt you, combining the confines of your car with asbestos seems like a bad idea. Quote: Temperature rating is 1600 degrees Fahrenheit For how long? your average safe provides heat protection for 30-120 minutes. I can't imagine a couple of layers of cloth would last more than a few minutes. I think they are being intentionally vague for a reason. Report this Post to the Staff
just carl Bedrock of the Community United States 20753 Posts	Posted 02/09/2009 7:08 pm I'm sure if enough people get hooked on this for some reason or other, the organization that is pushing this will acquire enough money to start one of those TV commercials like the ones for your old Gold, Silver and Platinum. This looks like the type of product that people will run out and buy and then say to themselves, hey, what do I do with this junk now? Then a few months or years later those same people will be selling them at the flea markets. My suggestion is always avoid STUFF like this and especially if you can not figure out what you would do with it if you did get some. I guess that large, purple, reddish looking thing would go great in someones living room. And the Tanish one would go great with someones dining room chairs so you could just grab it and run. The main thing here is if YOU are on fire you know your person effects are safe. Or maybe they are. Always be carefull of anything that is made of any type of plastic products regardless of other ingrediants there have included. No real thing as fire proof or the sun wouldn't be burning you know. Some time ago the Nuclear industry attempted to use only Fire PROOF Cables for their Nuclear Power Plants. Ever hear of the Browns Ferry Nuclear plant fires? It was the fire PROOF cables that were burning. Report this Post to the Staff
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