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Cleaned / Dipped Uncirculated Silver Coins

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 1,403Next Topic  
Valued Member

United States
216 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2022  4:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Hidalgo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was told that one way to tell if an uncirculated silver coin has been cleaned or dipped is to see if it has "cartwheels." Yet, I've seen Third Party Graded uncirculated silver coins with a satin finish or lacking in luster.

If an uncirculated silver coin has a satin/flat finish or lacks luster, is there a greater chance that it has been cleaned or dipped?
Pillar of the Community
United States
2214 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2022  6:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know much about it, but I've only seen/heard collectors talk about "cartwheel" when referring to older silver coins, Morgan/Peace dollars that have original surfaces, never cleaned, some call it luster. They do reflect light when moving them around and the reflection appears to move in a circular manner. For these old coins it is really cool IMO. I haven't heard many people using the word cartwheel referring to modern bullion such as Silver Eagles.

It doesn't take much experience to notice a coin has been cleaned if it was abrasively cleaned, has scratches which should never be done. It takes experience looking at coins to tell the difference between cleaned and not cleaned. Sometimes it's hard to tell and even dealers can disagree if a coin has been cleaned or not. Some collectors dip coins in acetone to help them look better. Most collectors do not consider this cleaning since you are only dipping them and not touching the coin surfaces with a cloth or whatever. Collectable coins that people think are cleaned or the TPG designate as cleaned are not worth as much and the uncleaned ones.

There are pros who conserve/restore coins.

If you use the search line here on CCF, type in "cleaning coins" and you'll find more discussion about this.
Edited by livingwater
10/18/2022 7:08 pm
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2022  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"cartwheels." Is one thing. Is referring to the shines of the coin. I will not go further deep on this topic.

Your topic is about cleaning, dipping or restoration of a coin. After a time, all those procedures will fail in preserving the shines of the coin if is not properly conserve. The Si, Au and Pl in contact with ambient environment will become "satin/flat finish or lacks luster". Is not a mark of the cleaning or other, is just metal proprieties.

Others factors can tell you if a coin was clean and is difficult to put here. The only metal I will touch is Si. If it is excessive white be sure was improper clean. The others metals, Au and Pl can change the original color, but this is direct proportional with the alloy composition.

So this it is. Is a lot to study on this topic and learn.

PS. I will clean or restore a coin on those alloys, and no one can say was clean and rejuvenated.
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wallyb's Avatar
Canada
557 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2022  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wallyb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Meh. I don't get too hung up on cleaning, dipping or any other method for attempting to make a coin look more attractive. You can read hundreds of posts on this forum and elsewhere and not find much for common opinion, even on specific coins. A lot of experts out there. If it's obviously cleaned you will recognize that in all likelihood. When in doubt don't buy the coin or opt for a TPG opinion which affords a little comfort and an easier sale down the road. If you really like a coin and it has nice eye appeal to you then go for it.
Edited by wallyb
10/18/2022 8:09 pm
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2022  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Liv: Pay attention with those YouTube's. when you go to clean or restore a coin is not those films who will teach you. They use commercials solutions which will destroy the coin value.

Restoring or cleaning is perform in Laboratories and not on tables as they show and will be perform by really Labs Techs. Is not the X or Y chemistry empty person which can do correct this job.

Bronze coins could be restored but will change the color. the Brass coins same and the clad coins will have big impact on the move of the core cooper ions to the surface and in less then one year the coin will oxide irreversible if was not vacuum at the end of the restorations (took me and my team 9 years to develop restorations and we do not touch Clad and Bronze or Brass coins).

Hope help you and the others.
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United States
2214 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2022  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree. A valuable coin should either be left alone or sent to those who know how to restore them, clean them correctly. But many collectors have dipped/cleaned common circulated coins of low value, modern and ancient, to experiment to see if they can make them look better. Many ancient coins have had some restoration/cleaning. Many have been found in the ground and are encrusted. I've cleaned a few of mine.
Edited by livingwater
10/19/2022 5:03 pm
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silviosi's Avatar
Canada
6244 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2022  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with you " livingwater " When I clean first coin I was a Young 25 years old new MD and I think I know enough. Not really: I try to clean a gold concave Constantinus 1 with his wife on reverse. Only two coins know today. From yellow bright gold become red yellowish. A chance I stop. and later was restored properly. I use in time just hot water and soap (Lux or Rexona). So conclusion: Open the eyes before is late":
Edited by silviosi
10/19/2022 5:25 pm
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