1841 Seated Liberty $1 - Super Lowball - A Candidate For Bot-Pop, Perhaps? - Page 2

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Author	Replies: 20 / Views: 2,699	Page: of 2

ExoGuy Pillar of the Community United States 4416 Posts	Posted 10/28/2022 12:41 am @kbbpll .... Thanks for the reference to Photograde. I've long been a fan. I could care less about the registry sets, but that approach surely is a marketing asset; admittedly, one that's rife for shenanigans though. I really don't see a need for more numbers. I simply see that grades below good should be based on the percentage of design detail that remains on a well-worn coin; this, regardless of whether the wear was manufactured. If there are scratches or buffing evidence apparent, the coin would get a "details" designation. . Report this Post to the Staff
kbbpll Pillar of the Community United States 4233 Posts	Posted 10/28/2022 01:55 am It depends then on where you delineate percentage of design detail and how you measure it. Essentially what grading is, I suppose. And that's sort of what CAC does, splitting a single grade into A, B and C, and then saying this one is A or B so give it a sticker. Which is why I said we need more numbers (grades) down there below G. Because it seems like there's way more spread in remaining detail from P01 through AG03 than there is between say VG8 and VG10. From that standpoint, it cracks me up when I see a P01 with a CAC sticker - why do they want one designated "better for the grade"? The PGCS FR02 example shows half the stars, a full date, and most/all of the denomination on the reverse, so your 1858-O example is arguably lower, so where between P01 and FR02 does it go? Report this Post to the Staff
nickelsearcher Moderator United States 15432 Posts	Posted 10/28/2022 05:30 am That is indeed a true lowball and if the date could be firmly established as 1841 certainly fits the definition of PO01. I spent many years as a dedicated lowball collector and have quite a bit of experience in identifying raw coins the having them certified. I've moved beyond that phase and have sold all my sets (expect my beloved circulated classic silver commemorative) - so I understand the questions you are posing about lowball grading scales. I view the 1859-O you reference in a different way - to me it's simply an example of the TPG grading inconsistency on these type of coins. On any given day PCGS could judge the exact same coin as PO01, FR02 or even AG03. It's the reason I gave up the pursuit of lowballs - frustration and expense of the TPG inconstant standards. Quote: I recall seeing a thread a few years ago about a coin - I forgot what it was - that was claimed to be the first PO-1 coin known of its entire type; at the time there were none in the census reports and there was some dispute over whether it would actually be graded 1 when there's nothing to compare it with for that. That would be my 1918-S PCGS PO01 Walking Liberty half which when I had it certified was Pop 1/0 across the entire series as a lowball. I could show a photo but do not wish to divert the OP thread. I eventually sold it for $1500 when I moved on from lowballs. There is indeed $$ to be made in this pursuit. Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art Report this Post to the Staff
TimNH Valued Member United States 416 Posts	Posted 10/28/2022 1:56 pm To echo some of the above, yes those searching for coins down in the lowest grades have a tougher job because there is so much variation within a single number. Like look at this P01 Chain Cent, that's way better than many other "poor" cents with the same grade. I'd say there is more variation within P01 alone than between 60 and 70 at the upper end. That doesn't quite compute. Report this Post to the Staff
ExoGuy Pillar of the Community United States 4416 Posts	Posted 10/30/2022 07:58 am Quote: .... those searching for coins down in the lowest grades have a tougher job because there is so much variation within a single number. @Tim .... I agree with your observation, in principle. In practice, I see a trend for TPG'ers to undergrade coins on the bottom end; this, just like the 1859-O $1 . Personally, I'd grade that Chain Cent you cited as a FR-02. It's got at least 50% of the detail, with a decent head and chain showing. This leads me to suspect that market prices on both ends of the grading scale may be "influencing" many assigned grades. Report this Post to the Staff
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