Grading And Cleaned Coins Question?

My understanding is all the TPG services (Anacs, ngc & PCGS, etc.) will list/label "cleaned" on the slab if in fact the coin has been cleaned, otherwise a coin will grade straight.

There is a large number of cleaned coins in straight graded holders. Additionally, there is a huge variation on the types of cleaning. A TPG may catch a small eraser scrub when the coin has 95% full luster. On the other hand, a TPG may call an 1893 S morgan a VF-35 when it is XF cleaned. The best thing you can do is learn how to spot a cleaning yourself. If you always rely on other people's opinions, then you will have a greater potential to lose money. Anyone can grade, it just takes time and dedication.

They say "buy the coin, not the holder" for a very good reason.

As some have noted, but may not have gone far enough in detail, the TPG's differentiate between coins that have been improperly cleaned, and those that have been "properly" cleaned, and not only are acceptable, but are highly desired and sought after by many collectors for their eye appeal!

As noted by others, an improperly cleaned coin will not "straight grade" by a TPG. The market value and demand for that coin is greatly diminished. On the other hand, many silver coins have clearly been "dipped" at some point in time, but apparently gently enough to not only get a straight grade, but to also merit a CAC sticker as well. These "old" coins typically have booming luster, and look as if they may have come off the press yesterday, just as their designers envisioned the coins should look.

The majority of collectors don't prefer this look, as they prefer the concept of "originality". But there's a very large minority of collectors, including myself, who do prefer that look. While bidding in auctions for rainbow toned coins is vigorous, so is the bidding for many highly lustrous, blast white coins. I know this first hand.

There is no right or wrong. YOU have to decide what YOU want in YOUR collection!

Buying coins graded by the major TPG's may cost more, but provide value for that extra cost in several ways:

1. You're getting a coin where a professional has provided an unbiased opinion as to the grade. Buying raw, you may be buying a coin for a fair price of the grade you are told, but that verbal grade may be overgraded.
2. When it comes time to sell, whether by you or your heirs, it's tough for a potential buyer to make a strong case that a slabbed coin is overgraded. Not so for a raw coin.
3. There are many counterfeit coins. We see them all of the time on this forum, raw. Buying one in a slab provides a guarantee that your coin is authentic.
4. While not perfectly air tight, the slab provides very good protection against the environment. It also provides physical protection against the "dropsies", which can easily damage a coin.

Here's a Morgan dollar that I just purchased for a new Morgan dollar DATE set that I'm putting together.

The True View photo shows what the coin in hand actually looks like, better than the two slab photos below, although the TrueView does not capture luster. This coin has clearly been dipped at some point.

This has always confused me. Sometimes details coins just say 'cleaned', other times 'improperly cleaned', other times 'harshly cleaned' etc.

So what's the deal w/ "properly cleaned" coins not getting Detailed? Is that just something you can tell by eye, but the graders let it go?

The ultimate protection you have from buying "bad" coins is your own eyes. More coins have snuck past ALL of the TPGers that are/have been: dipped out - covered with oven cleaner - CLR - *not genuine* etc than you would ever think. You may want to differentiate between Conserved coins, and those handled in an amateur fashion. Remember, both PCGS and NGC offer conservation services for problem coins. It's a lifetime of study, and even the "smartest" get it very wrong. That said, do your homework.

I disagree that the 1900 Morgan dollar posted above has been dipped; if it was, it was a very very brief dilute dip like a 10:1 "de-hazing" dip of the sort used on Peace dollars and proof silver coins.

Dipped coins rarely preserve booming luster with full and clearly defined "X" pattern cartwheel effect as seen on that coin; instead, since dipping removes a small layer of metal from the surface, dipped coins usually either have unnatural "all-over" luster that doesn't cartwheel, or if overdipped, flat, lifeless surfaces with a chalky whitish-gray appearance.

Yes, cleaned coins end up in TPG holders. Sometimes they're net graded (marked down in grade) based on the cleaning; sometimes they get a "details" designation. Rightly or wrongly, some coin series tend to be judged for cleaning with much more lenience (Liberty Seated dollars, draped bust coinage, 1807 and prior silver and gold coinage, colonials, pre-1816 copper just to use some examples.)

Certain popular key date coins also get more lenient grading at times (1916-D Mercury, 1877 Indian Head, 1909 S-VDB LWC, 1916 SLQ, etc.)

Of course, the opposite does happen, although it's much less common -- coins that get marked as "cleaned" by a TPG but show no evidence of cleaning.

Depending on the coin, grading by a reputable TPG (ANACS, NGC, PCGS, ICG) will carry a premium when the coin is valued or sold. Greysheet used to show PCGS as carrying the most premium, with NGC a bit behind. It provides a bit of extra reassurance (although not infallibility) when making purchases.

Not related to the above -- I collected baseball/football cards for about 20 years from 1985-2005, give or take, mostly 1979 and older. Used to go to a LOT of shows. I quit adding more to the collection when graded cards started to dominate the market because the rampant inflation caused by card grading made even mid-grade commons from the 1950s and 1960s unaffordable for the average collector while simultaneously devaluing non-graded cards.

BGC, SGC, CGC, PSA and the like did a great job of fostering a perception among collectors, investors and dealers that "raw" cards were somehow damaged, less desirable or less valuable because they weren't in a holder.

That, along with the industry-wide obsession with serial numbers as the key measure of value and rarity, severely and irreparably damaged the hobby I grew up with from my point of view. People started buying box after box looking only for the low SN's, autographs, redemptions and game-used materials cards and basically tossing the rest of the cards out unless it was a high value rookie or star card. Disheartening, to say the least, but great for investors, dealers and grading companies. When a certain card company started actually including an insert that let you redeem it with them and receive a graded version of that same card in the mail, I knew the shark had been well and truly jumped.