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 Replies: 15 / Views: 701 |
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Valued Member
United States
52 Posts |
Is this a known error? Polish lines around George's neck, ear and ponytail? 2023 P Bessie Coleman   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Those are called Feeder Finger scrapes, a nice find  |
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Valued Member
 United States
52 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
94765 Posts |
yes, these a Feeder Finger Damage. You will only see them on the recessed points of a coin (on the fields, or any area that is at the same level of the fields.) This is because on the Die, those areas are the highest part and susceptible to damage |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2213 Posts |
Some 2023 Edith K. quarters have this in the same area and also some clashed with letter transfer. See ebay listings. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
2023 production do not has Feeder Fingers attached to the striking system. Also been Horizontally strike you can not have Die Clashes. Those kind probably need new nomenclature.
If someone show me where the feeder fingers are on those presses, I go to the Mint, ask a pair of them and eat in the front of camera.
Edited by silviosi
06/09/2023 4:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Quote:
If someone show me where the feeder fingers are on those presses, I go to the Mint, ask a pair of them and eat in the front of camera. Hi Silviosi. looks yummy...want some ketchup?  Heres another one from denver mint from Grabener coin press that was manufactured in Germany in 1986. It went into service at the U.S. Denver Mint from 1986 to 2001. https://mikebyers.com/us-25c-feeder...er-mint.htmlDuring the minting process, an aluminum feeder finger moves and picks up a planchet to move it to the coining chamber. Sometimes, if the movement is mis-timed, the feeder finger itself also can be struck by the dies. This usually shears off an irregular piece of metal, which is then often struck multiple times. Unless something changed as you mention between 2019 and 2023 which I didnt look. https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/7855/Edited by datadragon
06/09/2023 4:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Grabener presses was vertical presses. Denver uses one or two years more. San Francisco still use the modernized one for Proof. Today is use Shuller horizontal presses which come first in Philadelphia and West Point in 1999 end of the year. the transition was during 2 years, For Essay West Point still have some Grabener. The both presses manufactured in Germany by same company Shuller. (Me I use manufacture name and not the press name) Shuller to day name is something like Scholler.
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
I'm sticking with Feeder Finger Damage until proven otherwise, something has to feed the coins into the presses. They don't just fall into perfect location then just fall out after the strike. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Hi Silviosi, its Schuler. Schuler MRH horizontal coin minting presses are used exclusively in the processing of round blanks. With cycle times of up to 850 strokes per minute, this MRH press series is especially well suited for high volume minting of coins. https://www.schulergroup.com/major/...l/index.htmlI guess since those minting presses are actually being used in 2023 at the US Mint then it should be looked into how it works to better understand errors as well as when different presses were used such as the Grabener mentioned in the mike byers link has a bit of info on that which we know can cause Feeder Finger Damage. This link mentions there may even be differences in the different models being used in the feeding and ejecting components as well and says the mint uses the Schuler MRH 150 (horizontal) for quarters https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/42...by-us-mints/I wonder if Mike Diamond has knowledge of these new presses or not yet as there have been some very interesting new errors on the cent and quarter recently as well that could very well be related to this info. As to the errors then I'm just learning ongoing so every day is an adventure ... Edited by datadragon
06/09/2023 7:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
DATA, at 850 coins per minute could be for cents and dimes. I have no data or see how the Mint after installing put the frequency. They use the first generation in 2000 at Phil for cents. The most important it is: are no more Feeder Fingers, and I will explain why.
Those presses work with what it say BiBall. This in the line and Germans technology means the coins fall direct on collars before the press and push inside by a piston. I saw the piston, has an end like some black rubber (I believe is not rubber). Same kind of piston is after strike, which push out the coin from collar and the collar band go on his elliptic way. The system is simply (apparently) but is a lot of synchronization between movements of the coins band and presses.
In 1999 and the 2000 I was there when the presses (first ones) was installed, and in that time I didn't know Mike to much, except conversation with Ken, Jon. I have 'it an voucher for an guest which was lost. I ask in time Dr. Sepp, Ken, Wex and Stanton (No one available).
This it is the story of those presses. The Mint it is at the third, or maybe forth generation? I can not know, my brother took retirement and not more in the German Government.
DATA: I will look in my hudge 2 hards for photos of the coins band and presses. If I find (probably) I will try to send you private, I will never expose here.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Ok. Here are some images from a Denver Mint Grabener Press with the feeder finger https://minterrornews.com/discoveri...r-press.html I guess if the Schuler models are being used in some cases like in Philadelphia mint then knowing about them would eventually help to learn which are mint errors and why. If Grabener presses are still in use in Denver that also is helpful info. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
No. NO Grabener press is still use in Denver and Philadelphia for circulation coins. Only San Francisco. The West Point and Denver still have for medals or such. The West Point use also for Essay of the new designs or new alloys. So are also use with the purpose of tests. The thirds parties do the jobs, but Mint always test and retest again before do the production.
DATA, and others do you know that the new coins probably has change the alloy? Was Congress Bill not publish, Mike know about, I sent to him. We need confirmations and me I do not have the 2022 and 2023 coins to test!!!!
Edited by silviosi
06/09/2023 7:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1648 Posts |
Quote:
DATA, and others do you know that the new coins probably has change the alloy? Was Congress Bill not publish, Mike know about, I sent to him. We need confirmations and me I do not have the 2022 and 2023 coins to test!!!! The last info I posted was the Mint has identified one solution that could be ready to implement approximately one year after an authorization by Congress which hasnt happened yet, as well as a few other compositions that future testing may determine to yield even more cost savings. The alternative 80/20 cupronickel has completed testing and is ready to be authorized for production. Once authorized, it will go through final validation and preparations to start full production for the 5-cent (nickel), 10-cent (dime), 25-cent (quarter dollar), and 50-cent (half dollar) coins. The alternative is referenced as 80/20. The alternative is a seamless variant to the present 75 percent copper, 25 percent nickel alloy used for the 5-cent coin and as the cladding for the dime, quarter dollar, and the Kennedy half dollar, but the 80/20 uses more copper, less nickel and adds manganese. The 80/20 composition is actually 77 percent copper, 20 percent nickel and 3 percent manganese from what I read as some might want to know. Seamless means substitutions that would require little or no modification to coin-accepting equipment. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/20/sen...content.htmlI posted the info here http://goccf.com/t/444381&whichpage=1Edited by datadragon
06/09/2023 9:24 pm
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Moderator
United States
94765 Posts |
Ok, no feeder fingers, However, something (the piston) that pushes the struck coin out of the way still has to cross under the die in order to push it away. Quote:
Same kind of piston is after strike, which push out the coin from collar So maybe this is Pusher Piston DamageNo matter what, the high point of the die (the field of the coin) was scratched by something Edited by Dearborn
06/09/2023 9:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
@ DATA : You are approximative correct, but you forgot the cents.
@ DEAR : Your perspective seem to be logic, but how we can prove? The current management do not present anymore full reports. On theirs reports talk about environments and such.
Edited by silviosi
06/09/2023 11:03 pm
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Replies: 15 / Views: 701 |
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Posted 06/07/2023 9:21 pm
