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1969 Roosy Rainbow

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biokemist6's Avatar
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12437 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2009  10:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Would xylene remove the toning from a silver coin?

Nope, it would only remove any remaining sulfur residue left by the cardboard in the album, you could dunk the whole coin in xylene or acetone and the toning would be unaffected. Of course, rubbing a qtip on the surfaces would be bad but using a qtip would be the best way to thoroughly remove the residue from the reeding.
Edited by biokemist6
04/01/2009 10:31 pm
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steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2009  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, got it. So some of the black may not come off...if it is actual toning on the edges.

Thanks to both of you chemists.

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simplycolors's Avatar
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61 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2009  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add simplycolors to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
steve199, I know on my topic you didn't agree with me on probably many of the things I have said. Cleaning a coin is not the best thing to do buddy. Adding any chemical like this will change and most likely damage the coin with time. You will see the damage as time passes.

I am just trying to give my opinion on my experience. Even if it is on the rim or on the surrounding of where the coin is laid, the coin will still be damaged. Don't forget that the solvent has very strong gases escaping from it and this would be considered AT to any coin.

I work for a company where there are many solvents and hazard's materials and I know about a lot of them. When it comes to Acetone, Alcohol, Laquer Thinner, Mineral Spirit, MEK, Resins or anything like that I know about since this is what I deal with all the time.

Any addition of this to a coin or surrounding of a coin will be damaging to it and considered AT. If you want to ask me any other questions just e-mail me.

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238719580
Edited by simplycolors
04/02/2009 8:59 pm
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biokemist6's Avatar
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12437 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2009  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Adding any chemical like this will change and most likely damage the coin with time. You will see the damage as time passes.

Sorry, but you are just plain wrong. Organic solvents are inert to coinage metals under normal conditions. This is not cleaning, it is conservation and it is the same thing done by NCS on a daily basis to coins worth thousands of dollars. My handle is not just some random letters thrown together- I have a degree in Chemistry but work in the medical research field and BadThad is even more qualified than myself as a metallurgical chemist. We do know what we are talking about...
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BadThad's Avatar
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19949 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2009  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed, bio is correct as always. Hydrocarbon type solvents will not cause toning. Sorry colors.
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steve199's Avatar
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1882 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2009  03:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
steve199, I know on my topic you didn't agree with me on probably many of the things I have said.


I never disagreed. Was merely trying to understand a coin doctor's thinking in regards to coins that are already valuable. I just had to ask several times. :)

As far as this thread, I will trust the word of both biokemist and Thad. They know what they are talking about on this subject.
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jbuck's Avatar
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188440 Posts
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simplycolors's Avatar
United States
61 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2009  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add simplycolors to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
biokemist6, I congrat you on your degree. I guess you know your stuff. I still think this is AT to a coin. O.K steve199 I respect your decision. I guess I just would not put any solvents on or even close to my coins.

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/...t=1238807602
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2009  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wrong- organic solvents(acetone, xylene) do not tone coins in any way and will not remove toning. How can you possibly say that something that will not tone a coin can create artificial toning
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simplycolors's Avatar
United States
61 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2009  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add simplycolors to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why not let the coin be NATURAL? Once you "clean" a coin it is NOT the same anymore. I will always disagree when someone says clean a coin with (acetone,xylene). Not that you might be wrong but because this is an alteration done to the coin. Even if it does not tone the coin you are still changing the coins natural state.

Try cleaning a nice toned coin with one of this ridiculous "organic solvents" and send it to PCGS to get certified and see if they won't notice the alteration of the coin. I can almost guarantee you will get it bagged.
Edited by simplycolors
04/04/2009 4:19 pm
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biokemist6's Avatar
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12437 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2009  5:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the thing you are not getting- this is not cleaning, it is conservation and there is a big difference between the two! NGC has a sister company(NCS) whose purpose is to conserve coins using some of these same methods. There is no alteration to the coin whatsoever so no, PCGS or anyone else for that matter would never bodybag a coin dunked in acetone or xylene because that process leaves no trace. This is not the same thing as dipping a coin in E-Z-Est or Jeweluster, those chemicals will strip toning and impair luster and that is definitely cleaning. Is leaving PVC residue or other kinds of muck on a coin leaving it in "its natural state"? I guarantee you that any legit TPG will refuse to slab a coin with PVC residue. If the PVC has not pitted the coin yet, the residue can be successfully removed and then the coin will slab.

There is nothing natural about surface contaminants on a coin, especially when those contaminants can cause damage to a coin over time. Cleaning damages a coin, conservation protects it.
Edited by biokemist6
04/04/2009 6:43 pm
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BadThad's Avatar
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19949 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2009  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hummm....every coin I've submitted has at least received an acetone rinse. I've gotten exactly one bodybag, but that had nothing to do with my acetone rinse. Biokemist is absolutely dead-on correct here, there's a HUGE difference between conservation and cleaning. If not, then NCS wouldn't be in business.
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simplycolors's Avatar
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61 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2009  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add simplycolors to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Everyone has their opinion and this is an alteration to me. Although I agree both of you know your chemistry and all. So, only because the Acetone or other bad stuff like that doesn't leave any trace to you guys that is ok right?
Does not seem fair that this are some of the things coin Docs do and sell the coins to unsuspected collectors out there. I guess that is ok as well.
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steve199's Avatar
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1882 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2009  08:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to wonder. Maybe you prefer contaminants to stay on the coins so they will keep toning.
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biokemist6's Avatar
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12437 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2009  1:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
THIS IS NOT COIN DOCTORING
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