| Author |
 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,698 |
|
|
New Member
United States
19 Posts |
So I inherited some coins, and have sold some, looking at the tax ramifications it seems to me an appraisal was needed, but to me with the date of death step up in basis and the actual sale price I received, seems arguable that I would have a capital loss vs. what the appraised value would be. I kept detailed notes and retail values of each coin...any thoughts on this and again to me the actual sale price would not seem to exceed an appraised value? |
|
|
|
Moderator
 United States
95644 Posts |
Can you give us a few examples?
|
|
New Member
 United States
19 Posts |
Thank you, sure some $10 Liberty Head Gold coins, some Morgan dollars, none of the coins are rare/key dates, definitely the more common date and then there are some assorted world silver coins that mostly got close to or a little over their melt value. I'm just broadly thinking that the appraisal value would not be higher than what an LCS would give me. |
|
Moderator
United States
95644 Posts |
Quote:
I'm just broadly thinking that the appraisal value would not be higher than what an LCS would give me. I have not tried to sell to a LCS, but when I buy from one they will sell Bullion for instance at SPOT price + $10 to make a profit, I would think that they would buy at SPOT -$10 in order to make a profit when the market drops some. |
|
New Member
United States
19 Posts |
Correct sorry, what you wrote is what I meant, meaning a 1926 $10 Indian Head in 'solid' call it anywhere from AU55 - MS61 condition might appraise for ~$1,000 - $1,200 but when selling to the LCS they offer ~$900 - $1,100.
-so again broadly, unless really unique coins are involved, it seem like there will mostly be reported capital losses; at least that is what I am experiencing.
And I certainly realize my self appraised values may be subject to scrutiny, but I have spent significant hours getting approximations.
Thank you for you feedback.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Have you talked to a tax advisor? Was the date of death recent? I've only dealt with this for inherited stocks (which haven't been sold yet), but for that it seemed relatively easy. Look up the stock price on date of death, and that's my basis. Sell the stock, then capital gain or loss is easy to calculate. Without knowing what a professional would say, it seems like recently inherited coins could be a substantial loss write-off. Your basis is what you'd have to pay for the coin at a dealer's shop on the death date, right? Which is always a lot more than what they'll pay you for the coin. Non-bullion coins it seems to me would be more lucrative in that regard. For example, a "book value" $1000 collectable value coin the shop would probably only pay you $700. (I'm just going off of a typical 70% I've seen batted around on forums). So you get $700 in your pocket and a $300 write off from a free coin. Am I totally wrong about that? Looking forward to an expert opinion, which mine obviously is not. Edited by kbbpll
06/14/2023 11:35 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2230 Posts |
Some states have inheritance tax also. In 2009 I inherited several acres of land from my dad. I sold it last year. For cost basis my CPA used the state of Missouri Extension Dept. records of what an average acre of land was worth in 2009. The IRS accepted it. For coins/collectables I think we are supposed to determine a fair market value of them at the time we inherit them? I am not a CPA but I assume just historical spot prices should work for bullion. That could be too low a valuation if the coins have some collectable value. It used to be if you sell them under $10K per transaction coin stores were not required to report it. That may have changed and does not mean we can avoid capital gains. I have always kept my coins/bullion purchase receipts in a file cabinet so I or my daughter (when I'm dead) have a record of their costs. https://www.investopedia.com/articl...es-taxed.asphttps://www.usagold.com/daily-gold-price-history/Edited by livingwater
06/15/2023 07:43 am
|
|
New Member
United States
19 Posts |
Have you talked to a tax advisor? Was the date of death recent?
Have not talked to a tax advisor yet, I am pretty well versed in taxation due to prior work experience, came close to going down the CPA path and d/o/d was relatively recent. And concur, most coins will be at a loss with the step up in basis. I did have one of the coins go to an auction that sold well over what I recorded the estimated value to be, so I have a gain there, but on the other coins, and as you note, you are certainly selling to a buyer below what it would cost to buy from them, so those losses will offset the gain I experienced on the auction coin.
I am just kind of preparing for next years return and as I was doing it the internet is full of "get a professional appraisal", which feels a bit little silly since you get a step up in basis and unlikely you'll get that appraised value. And different than stocks, coins arguably have a static price, for example a non-key date $10 Indian Head price is not fluctuating wildly from month to month. I may be wrong but it seems like if you personally record estimates of each coin, document it you may have the proof if the IRS comes knocking.
- I collected my values from multiple sources, which I denoted in my records and the sources mostly line up in the value of said coins, even today the prices are the same or some minute difference.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
Quote:
I'm just broadly thinking that the appraisal value would not be higher than what an LCS would give me. No LCS is going to give you the appraised numismatic value. More like half (if you're lucky). Bullion/melt different story - but you don't need an appraisal to count ounces. Can't speak to tax implications |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
A capital loss seems likely under your scenario. IIRC, tax reporting of a loss on collectibles can help offset gains, but only gains on other collectibles
Edited by nick10
06/15/2023 12:01 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I read through some articles on this and I learned some interesting things. 1. Collectibles capital gains tax rate isn't tiered like other assets that have a max of 20%, it's always 28%. 2. You can't claim a loss if it was for personal use, i.e. you hang a painting on your wall instead of having it in storage. Doesn't seem to apply to coins but I thought that was interesting. 3. Bullion coins are still considered collectibles. I had thought they were a separate investment category. Capital gain and loss "netting" looks really complicated if you have other gains/losses mixed in there. And I wonder what happens if you sell inherited coins in less than a year - are they still considered collectibles? |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
7940 Posts |
I like livingwater's answer the best.
And agree you don't need to waste money on any kind of appraisal since you are going to use the actual sale price to calculate the gain, etc..
If it were me,I would be out on acsearch or coin archives looking for records of unusually high selling prices near d/o/d on these types, and keeping records of these.
If the IRS comes knocking, the guy is not going to be an experienced coin collector, and is going to accept whatever credible-looking evidence you provide. (Statistically speaking, you don;t even need to worry about that knock on the door anyhow.)
Edited by tdziemia
06/15/2023 1:04 pm
|
|
Valued Member
United States
125 Posts |
that's great that you're going the extra mile to pay taxes on inherited, not traceble collectables. hats off to you, PATRIOT! |
|
Valued Member
United States
345 Posts |
Seems like a ton of effort on your part ... unless this is a listed / insured / catalogued collection, I would sell the coins and spend it on something your Dad would appreciated.
Best of Luck - Tiny
|
| |
Replies: 13 / Views: 1,698 |
|
Posted 06/14/2023 12:45 pm
