Another Russian Kopeck To Id. - Help Please?

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 929
ttkoo Pillar of the Community Australia 2517 Posts	Posted 11/06/2023 12:42 am Hi again, this came in an assorted bunch from an auction. On the charts and diagrams of these that I have, I can see similar inscriptions, but always slightly different letters. The bottom two lines I can find on a few examples, the next line up appears to be (in English equivalent) 36nI and that's where the differences start. The horseman is not of much help, it could be a lot of them. Any hints would be welcome. edit: it is comparatively tiny - perhaps not a kopeck? 10mm x 6mm 0.30 grams The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient. Edited by ttkoo 11/06/2023 8:14 pm Report this Post to the Staff

mrwhatisit Pillar of the Community United States 2953 Posts	Posted 11/06/2023 9:30 pm It appears that this is a silver wire money denga from either Ivan the Terrible in the late 1500s through Peter the Great of the 1700s, but hard to tell. Report this Post to the Staff
ttkoo Pillar of the Community Australia 2517 Posts	Posted 11/07/2023 8:13 pm So now I think it is a reduced size kopeck of Peter I the Great. (Peter I the Great - further shrank silver kopeks from 0.39 grams to 0.28, then gradually phased them out all together, ending production in 1717) Judging from the legend, it is a Peter I the Great kopeck 1696 - 1704. Looking back through the charts on-line, there is only that combination of old Cyrillic script for that era. h t t p://www.learn-your-history.in.ua/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=18 remove the spaces in http Then to narrow it down, I can only see two possibilities for the design of the horse (shown as either die 26 or 31) which would make it either a 1702 or 1703. Any thoughts? The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient. Edited by ttkoo 11/07/2023 8:16 pm Report this Post to the Staff
JohnConduitt Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 725 Posts	Posted 11/09/2023 7:10 pm The size (0.3g) doesn't necessarily help, since tsars like Ivan IV struck kopeks and dengas, where a denga was half a kopek. These coins always say something along the lines of Tsar and Grand Duke (tsar's first name and patronymic here) of all Russia. But because the flan only fits about a third of that on it and wraps the text with no spaces between the words, you usually need to look at the middle lines for letters in the name. In this case the second line down has PE and the third line down has LE3IE from Peter Aleksievich (Peter I). It's from the Old Mint in Moscow. You'd have to study the exact positioning of the lettering to get the die. Edited by JohnConduitt 11/09/2023 7:12 pm Report this Post to the Staff
ttkoo Pillar of the Community Australia 2517 Posts	Posted 11/11/2023 02:01 am Thanks for that John, Yes it is a labyrinth. I did manage to get a link to a mirror of a good wire money website. The original site is losing lots of drawings, you probably are aware of it anyway. In case you missed the mirror site it is h t t p://www.a-saida.jp/spravki/silver-copeck/index.htm Again I have added spaces to http in the link, for some reason when I used the link feature here before, the web address got truncated. I got the link from the forum at Numista The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient. Report this Post to the Staff
JohnConduitt Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 725 Posts	Posted 11/12/2023 1:19 pm You can get (somewhere online) the pdf of the IV Grishin and VN Kleshnikov references. This one would be in Catalogue of Russian Medieval coins 1696-1717. Some of them are in English and Russian. Yes the style of the tail, cape and horse's legs put it in 23-32. I don't know if it's struck properly at the bottom. The lettering seems to fit best with 16 (the soft sign is further left than the E below it), which would make it obverse 23, reverse 16, coin 1684 (1702) http://www.a-saida.jp/spravki/silve...013/1702.htm But it isn't exactly clear. Report this Post to the Staff
ttkoo Pillar of the Community Australia 2517 Posts	Posted 11/13/2023 8:35 pm Thanks for all of your help John. Yes a copy of the pdf of the IV Grishin and VN Kleshnikov references would certainly be handy. I'll spend some time trawling for it. These little silver "footballs" are starting to become an obsession, so I think I will need to have a copy. The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient. Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 6 / Views: 929

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