Coin Community Family of Web Sites
300,000 items to help build your collection! Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Shop CCF Members on eBay!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

NGC Has Changed The Way It Grades (Late 2023)

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 3,542Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
Numisto's Avatar
United States
195 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2023  1:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Numisto to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all,


Has anybody noticed what my title says? NGC has changed the way it grades, as of late 2023.

Nobody gets every grade right, but I have done pretty well over the years, usually. For years, my submissions to NGC have been about the same: most coins match the grade I thought, with a few lower and a few higher, and the occasional bad mistake by me.

Recently, my last few submissions have ENTIRELY matched the way I would grade the coins, though minus one whole grade.

I am stocking up this stash of coins that I can't conceive of how they graded it so low, and I never used to feel that way before. This seems to be a change that started a few months after the sale of the company.

Has anyone had similar recent experience with NGC? It's been frustrating.



Thanks,
N.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2829 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2023  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coin rejector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You should post a pic of just your coin (w/o the actual grade), let the pros grade it & see how they view it.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Brandmeister's Avatar
United States
6449 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2023  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Although there is a difference between the question of whether a grade is correct, and whether NGC's grading has subjectively changed in a repeatable way.
Valued Member
Numisto's Avatar
United States
195 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2023  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I agree with that clarification. Not so much whether or not people agree with a specific one of my grades but whether people are feeling that change of consistency with their own submissions.
Edited by Numisto
11/08/2023 5:55 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2023  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Has NGC verified it has changed its grading standards? Or are you just flapping your wings?
Valued Member
Numisto's Avatar
United States
195 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2023  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm asking for others' experiences from the last six months or so versus their past experience. That's all. My thoughts are that they grade a decent clip tighter now.

Add thoughts from your experience if you have any. Thanks.
Pillar of the Community
Pertinax's Avatar
United Kingdom
2133 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2023  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know whether US auctions think NGC overgrade coins, but British auctions certainly do.

Slabbed coins in British auctions are usually graded by the auctioneer 1 to 2 grades below what it says on the label.
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16805 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2023  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The most important aspect of a grading company's reputation is consistency. Tightening, or loosening, the standard creates inconsistency, and inconsistency is bad for business. If a grading company tightened standards, it would effectively put an end to their resubmission business - nobody would pay money to get their high-grade coins downgraded.

So I would think it would not be something NGC would do at all if they could help it, and if they felt the need to tighten their standards, they wouldn't do it on the sly, or secretly - they'd be upfront and open about tightening their standard, and explaining in excruciating detail why they needed to do it.

Occam's razor says that the one whose grading standards have changed, is most likely to be you, the submitter.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2023  12:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I disagree with @Sap. If they're going to do something like that across the board, they're going to stay quiet about it. "Hey everybody, all those MS63's you had graded a year ago are now MS62." That would go over like a lead balloon.

One thing that popped into my head reading this thread is wondering how the other TPGs might respond to CACG. The definition of original CAC's green bean is that it's for the A and B quality coins within a certain grade, and C quality doesn't pass muster. So, what is CACG going to grade a C quality MS63? MS 62? I can see where it might put pressure on the other TPGs to go a point lower on those borderline coins, but I'm only thinking out loud.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2280 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2023  07:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let's see some examples with your proof.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.

-Neil deGrasse Tyson
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4587 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2023  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So - you've verified your grading skills reliably come in one grade too high? Nice. A correlation of -1 is just as useful as +1 if you know this.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Valued Member
Numisto's Avatar
United States
195 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2023  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Couple updates here. I have some images of my Morgans that I think NGC was tough on, and I'll start posting after this.

But, I chatted with a dealer friend today and he, before I said anything at all, said that he knows a number of dealers who are annoyed with NGC recently because they are grading differently recently, much tighter. These dealers seem to be of a consensus that this is NGC's response to CACG, that they have to match it or become the 3rd best TPG out there. A few of these dealers have decided that they will not submit anything for a while, until things settle down. My friend went on to say that it was like everything submitted needed to be a grade higher than the graded wanted on the slab, which is exactly how I felt.

This was the kind of observation that I was hoping to get out of this forum. If anyone had noticed that? If none of us have, someone else somewhere else has.

I'll now work on uploading these photos for any comments from us, but please don't make it by way if insult. People too frequently insult the grading skills of others on this forum. There's always someone in the crowd who's grade guess for ANYTHING is "AU58." To be clear, none of the coins I'll post graded AU58.


N.

Valued Member
Numisto's Avatar
United States
195 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2023  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the Morgans:


#1: 1884-O

NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023


#2: 1900

NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023


#3: 1881-S

NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023


#4: 1897

NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023
NGC-Has-Changed-The-Way-It-Grades-Late-2023



Okay. Feel free to let me know what you think.



N.
Pillar of the Community
jimbucks's Avatar
United States
4691 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2023  6:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm still waiting for coins I sent to NGC over 8 months ago to come back. One was simply for an error in the label (labeled a PF 3 cent silver a PF 3 cent nickel).

Pillar of the Community
Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6381 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2023  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numisto, I think your Morgans all present grading challenges. The heavy toning makes it very difficult to assess luster, field marks, friction, or disturbances from mishandling. The 1900 in particular has strike weakness that mimics wear. I presume all these coins are MS but based on these images they might score anywhere from 61 to 67.

I imagine if the graders decide the toning hurts eye appeal they will downgrade accordingly.
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2023  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not a problem for me.
None of the 2,000 or so coins in my collection are TPG'ed or slabbed.
Museums don't slab their coins, either.
  Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 3,542Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.46 seconds to rattle this change. Forums